Senior BJP leader Subramanian Swamy talks to New Indian Express Editorial Director Prabhu Chawla on the party’s loss in the 2015 Delhi assembly polls, Article 370, and his position in the party on Sachchi Baat on India News.
PC: Are you in the Bharatiya Janata Party?
SS: I don’t doubt it. You do. Many people get a stomach ache on seeing me in BJP. They used to earlier call me a “one man army”. They used to say I am alone. Now you get a stomach ache thinking that I am part of a huge army.
PC: You had told me in the previous interview that you will comment on what the government is doing. Is it time to comment on it?
SS: A mid-term appraisal will happen.
PC: Will you keep giving the government a grace period?
SS: Nothing like that.
PC: You had said that you would strengthen the party. BJP lost so badly in the Delhi assembly polls. Whose weakness is it?
SS: You must know a few things. Our vote hasn’t gone down.
PC: What about the new 27 lakh members you were claiming?
SS: Secondly, we hadn’t known that the Congress would commit a political suicide.
PC: Were you confident about its revival?
SS: We were thinking that the Congress would fight for its existence. However, the party (Congress) sacrificed itself to stop the BJP. We should have had a system in place to counter that. We did not.
PC: Can’t you fight on your own?
SS: That’s your conclusion. I am not saying it. I am saying that we had assumed that the Congress would fight for its existence and its vote bank; that the party would not go for a political suicide. We had not made preparations for it. We will have to prepare for it in the future.
PC: What about the statistics? Would you compare the fall from 49 per cent in the Lok Sabha polls to the 33 per cent in the 2015 Assembly polls?
SS: Indira Gandhi won by a huge majority in the 1971 Parliamentary polls. Jan Sangh won the corporation polls merely six months later.
PC: Do you think there was no leader as strong as Narendra Modi in Delhi (assembly polls)?
SS: Don’t put your cruel words in my mouth. I am saying that we were not short of good leaders. The Congress sacrificed its vote bank.
PC: Organiser wrote that making Kiran Bedi contest (the Delhi assembly polls) was the biggest mistake of BJP.
SS: The magazine has the right to express its views. Kiran Bedi is a very sincere person.
PC: Did you not lose because of her?
SS: Not in my opinion.
PC: Did people vote for a better candidate?
SS: People have to be told. Germany gave a huge mandate in favour of Hitler. They considered him a good candidate. I consider him a Naxalite. There isn’t much difference between Hitler and a Naxalite. The intention is the same.
PC: You joined BJP on the basis of an agenda. Has the party lived up to your expectations?
SS: Hindu vote should become a vote bank. We trust the Vishu Hindu Parishad and the Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh for the same. Today, I am travelling the country. RSS is a cultural organisation. I am a politician. I am aligned with their ideology.
PC: You are a hero in organisations related to the RSS.
SS: Yes.
PC: Are you a zero in the BJP?
SS: You worry about it. I don’t.
PC: A leader like you is not being used.
SS: There is no question of not being used. I am busy catching the corrupt people across the country.
PC: BJP people don’t let you be on the platform….
SS: Never mind. Why are you so bothered about it? Why are you whining over it when I don’t? Would I travel across the country for the party if I were sad about it?
PC: Are you doing it for the party? You are doing it for the Sangh Parivar.
SS: I do it for the party also. I deliver speeches for the party as well.
PC: Were you doing it during the Delhi assembly polls?
SS: Was there a dearth of people campaigning for BJP during the Delhi polls? What was there about economics in the Delhi polls? It was aboutpaani, nal… What will I do in all that?
PC: Around 150 people were delivering speeches. Where were you?
SS: Why should I be the 151? You won’t get anything out of the line you are trying to adopt in this conversation. I am a thick-skinned person. I won’t be incited by you.
PC: You have been in politics for so long, after all.
SS: I know what I am doing. There are cruel people in the country. The maximum are in the Congress. The party has to be demolished.
PC: Have you met PM Narendra Modi?
SS: I have met him twice. Why do I need to meet him more than that? Where is the requirement? How many times do I meet people I have strong ties with? How many times have I met Mohan Bhagwat? Roughly four times.
PC: Do people call you for consultations? They keep meeting other people.
SS: Are you putting a question?
PC: Yes.
SS: Why do you complicate questions? They don’t have to call me. They know that I will call when I have to make a point. Just a while ago you were saying that I am a hero for RSS. Now you are saying that they don’t call me. We are talking about Mohan Bhagwat. It doesn’t matter if Modiji doesn’t call me. My work is different. I am doing my work. I don’t care about whether I have position in the party of the government. Have I complained to you?
PC: Did they promise you a Rajya Sabha ticket?
SS: I am not going to reveal any of those political promises to you. I have to decide what I want to do. You are good at creating animosity. You cannot create any dissatisfaction in my heart.
PC: Are you a satisfied person?
SS: Naturally. I am a follower of the Bhagwad Gita. I will always remain satisfied.
PC: How long have you been in the party?
SS: It’s going to be two years in August. I won’t speak anything on the government’s performance till its mid-term. However, I will praise them if they do good work. You are telling me constantly what I haven’t got in the party. You should drop the attitude of Manthara and Shakuni.
PC: The Sangh parivar feels happy at your statements. However the party (BJP) has a problem with your tweets on Muslims.
SS: I had said in the tweet that those people are either fake names or mentally retarded. People who hurl those kinds of dirty abuses on me are mentally retarded.
PC: Modiji has said that he will strengthen the tolerance.
SS: That’s the essence of Hinduism. If people adopt Hinduism willingly, we welcome it.
PC: What about the fringe elements?
SS: There are no fringe elements. In our country, fringe elements exist only in newspapers. There are fringe elements among the journalists. They get upset every time something is said about Hinduism. We have been saying that Hindus have been converted forcibly in the country for thousands of years. Those people want to return.
PC: The government is opposing it.
SS: Will the government follow my instructions? There has been no dilution in Article 370. Those are all proposals printed in newspapers. If there is any such matter, a national executive meeting will be called to discuss it. It can’t be passed like that. We will look into it there. Minority hai to maan lenge.
PC: Are you saying that on any matter related to the dilution of Article 370, the BJP will have to pass through the national executive?
SS: Yes.
PC: Let me come to another issue. You are fighting for the Ram Setu…
SS: Not fighting. We have won it.
PC: I saw a statement by Gadkariji. It was about building another route.
SS: When did I say that they can’t build another route? I said that they cannot touch the Ram Setu.
PC: Have they declared it national monument or national heritage?
SS: It will happen. We have an intellectual minister for culture. He will look into it. When it comes to corruption, I will handle matters. The RSS will handle matters pertaining to Hindutva. PM Modi has to look at governance.
PC: Will you become a minister in this government?
SS: If it’s in my prarabdha, I will.
PC: Do you believe in destiny?
SS: I am a dharmik man. You people almost wrote off Janata Party as a sign-board party. I became a minister after six months.
PC: Chandrashekhar made you the minister and he left after six months.
SS: He did not make me a minister. It was a formality. I made him the prime minister.
PC: Were you the actual PM?
SS: I was running the show.
PC: You sometime mingle with the Congress.
SS: I mingle with good people.
PC: You had said initially that you are with the Congress.
SS: Rajiv Gandhi was a very good friend. He was a nationalist. I respect him even today. I was a minister for Narasimha Rao. I used to attend his cabinet meetings. I used to chair a commission. I used to assist him in economic reforms.
PC: Chandraswamy was your friend.
SS: Yes. Prabhu Chawla comes in the same rank. I don’t touch the bad qualities in a friend. I am loyal friend.
PC: You will trust your destiny.
SS: Prarabdha. Not destiny.
PC: Will you go to PM Modi for a ministerial post?
SS: No. I won’t ask anyone for anything. I will get what I want at the right time. Anyone who tries to stop me would perish.
PC: Thanks for coming to our studio.
SS: Thanks.