In the run-up to the Assembly polls, the reservation issue has put the State Government in a tight spot as Panchamsali Lingayat community leaders, including some BJP legislators, are unhappy with the government’s decision and continue to protest. Law and Parliamentary Affairs Minister JC Madhu Swamy says the government is trying to do its best and it never looked at these issues from a political angle. Excerpts:
How is the government looking at the demand for change in the reservation matrix from various communities?
The 103rd Constitutional amendment is upheld by the Supreme Court, which means we are capable of giving reservation up to 60% now. The EWS (Economically Weaker Section) has been accepted by the Supreme Court which means 10% more reservation is accepted. We take it as a base. To go ahead with the EWS, we don’t need the entire 10% because we have to give either adequate or proportionate reservation. Entire communities leftover are around 2.5% to 3% which are not covered under any reservation. As Vokkaliga and Lingayat communities are covered as special groups under BC (Backward Classes), that is 3A Vokkaliga which is entitled to 4% and 3B Lingayat and others are entitled to 5% where their income has to be less than Rs 8.5 lakh per annum. They are already in the economically weaker section.
The Parliament Bill says the states are empowered to go up to 10%. It need not be exactly 10%. We may save 6% or 7% because a population of 2% cannot be given 10% of the reservation. We are trying to push some quota from the EWS savings to Lingayats and Vokkaligas to the extent of another 2% or 3%. We are not giving anything extra in political reservation and it is only confined to education and employment. That’s why they are not going to disturb 2A or 2B in the political reservation or any field. We have not touched 2A and 2B.
What about political reservation?
The Supreme Court has now taken the issue of political reservation. They want us to have empirical data. They ask for unit-wise data from every panchayat. Data on the politically backward group has to be now empirically collected. That is the issue which is bothering us. That is why the municipal and other elections have been delayed. So we have to give the empirical data of the political backwardness to fix seats in the civic bodies. That is a tough game for us. We and even the Madhya Pradesh government asked SC to give some formula to identify these categories. How to identify these categories? What is the standard for fixing the backward communities as politically backward? The court says that is your (government’s) business.
Can Lingayats and Vokkaligas who miss out on reservation in their category jump into EWS?
No. Lingayats and Vokkaligas are already covered under some reservation. They cannot be taken into the EWS fold. Only Brahmins, Vaishyas, Jains and such categories can be considered under EWS.
What is the purpose of 2C and 2D?
We have to name them ‘backwards’. We are giving them reservation in the ‘backward’ tag. After the Government of India enacted the law of EWS, now we have another 10% extra with us. We may say EWS is only 3 or 4% and the remaining we are sharing with these two groups for employment and education.
Don’t you think the reservation issue will create more controversies?
Yes it will. Anything of this sort will certainly create a controversy. We cannot say it will be okay 100%. There will be controversies. It is our fate. We have to address it as there is a lot of demand.
Is the Panchamasali community not convinced?
I don’t know why. Swamiji (Sri Jaya Mrityunjaya Swami, Panchamsali Lngayat seer) says they are not asking for political reservation. If they are not asking for political reservation, it is fair if they are grouped in 2D. There is nothing wrong. We already have 5% of reservation. Another 2 or 3% will be added to Lingayats and another 2 to 3% to Vokkaligas. The Lingayat community has many sub-castes, and if everyone starts asking for reservation what can we do? I am a Lingayat, and our community is called Nolamba; (Chief Minister) Bommai is a Lingayat, and his community is called Sadaru; (former chief minister) Yediyurappa is a Lingayat and his community is called Banajiga. Where will we end up?
The High Court stayed the new quota categories. Is it a setback for the government?
I don’t know how the HC stayed it and how the matter was taken into account because there is no government order, and there is no government decision. We have just discussed the proposal which is before us which is recommended by the Backward Classes Commission. We have said it is an interim report. We have not taken any decision … We are still at the discussion stage.
Is it the right time to take up reservation issues?
No, it is not the right time. But they’re not giving us any scope to leave it. Every day there are strikes … Every day there are protests. So the government has to respond.
Do you think a hike in SC/ST quota helps BJP in elections?
We feel we have done some justice. I certainly tell you we did not look at the political angles of these issues. They were justified.
How long do we need the reservation system?
As long as inequality prevails, as even today, Scheduled Caste people are treated otherwise. Still they have no social status and hence it’s humane to give reservation. If an SC boy gets a job, that family will sustain for a lifetime. By being educated and in a government service a man who is being treated as ‘untouchable’ today will become ‘touchable’ tomorrow. His status will change along with his economic level and also politically.
You have written to NLSIU (National Law School of India University) Bengaluru to implement the 25 per cent quota in CLAT for students of Karnataka domicile, but there’s no clarity about it as yet…
We had amended the law which the High Court struck down. Following which we moved the Supreme Court. During the hearing, the SC in its view with reference to the other states’ national colleges said when the domicile quota was there, why was it not implemented in Karnataka.
Taking a cue, the Karnataka HC chief justice instructed the NLSIU VC to provide a 25 per cent quota. But the VC started compartmentalisation of Kannadiga students by listing 7-8% of them who had secured seats on their merit with better rankings also under state’s domicile quota. It was unconstitutional and defeats the spirit of reservation itself. The VC claimed the quota was given horizontally, but we insist it should be vertical. Similarly, it happened in the case of Karnataka’s SC students as those hailed from outside the state are allowed under the quota, though they are not listed in the SC category in our state. Despite land, infrastructure and funds given by our government and the institution (NLSIU) has not obliged to our law, then what is the fun of having it? We are not giving it up until our students’ interests are not safeguarded.
How are BJP’s prospects in the 2023 Assembly polls?
We are very sound as we have done some good work. Besides, 60-70% of BJP leaders and ministers were on the ground in their respective constituencies and attending to their constituents’ work. Not only the development works, we have been addressing our constituents’ works, too. If you pay a visit to Vidhana Soudha, you will find hardly three or four ministers, the rest are in their hometowns.
How is the party’s situation in the old Mysuru region?
See, I am a man from a rural background. My gut feeling says we are through in the region.
When will the Yetthinahole project be completed?
There is a land acquisition problem at Koratagere in Tumakuru district where the dam to collect 6 tmcft of water was planned. 2,750 acres each from Koratagere and Doddaballapura in Bengaluru Rural district are supposed to be acquired. So, we will confine the dam to Doddaballapur by reducing its storage capacity. Except for this issue, the canal works are in progress.
What inspired you to join politics. If not a politician, what would you have become?
I was part of the students’ movement responding to the socialist leader Jayaprakash Narayana’s call. I never dreamt of joining politics as the struggle was for the welfare of people and through that journey, I was shaped as a politician. If not a politician I would have become a lawyer, or else an agriculturist.
The lawyers’ community is demanding a special law for their protection…
They should understand that in a democratic country, any category having privilege under a special act has been denied in the Constitution. In the past, the constituent assembly had debated for three days on the privilege of MLAs and MPs as well. When you say all are equal before law how can one get extra support, benefit, security or protection under law? If you respect the Constitution you cannot give any special privilege to anybody, which I had also said in the Assembly when Sa Ra Mahesh said he was privileged. As an MLA and MP, one cannot have a privilege unless he gets obstructed in the process of discharging his duties which amounts to a breach of privilege.
I myself am not under a privileged category. Do you know they (the lawyers) want to have a special law for them and they have given the draft for my signature that says nobody is supposed to arrest a lawyer for any reason and only DySP and above-level officers have to take cognisance of the case? But even against common people or the chief minister, a station house officer (SHO), a sub-inspector of police, is empowered to register a case. DySPs are not supposed to file FIRs. We agree that if advocates face any obstructions or problems on the premises of court during working hours, we can think of giving protection. It is already there, as judges can give them protection by providing police. But lawyers want protection for their entire lifestyle. I question how they are different from any other citizens of the country, for which they brand me as a villain.
Are you satisfied with your work as a minister?
I am very satisfied, because I am involved in the law-making process and as a minor irrigation minister.
Do you think several allegations, including contractors’ charges, will impact the government’s image?
No. They are all politically motivated as there is not even 1% of evidence to prove. Some contractors’ association president made allegations that the leader of the opposition raised it as an issue in the House. It’s not correct. The people take cognisance only if there is prima facie evidence and specific case. But I do not say we are a 100% corruption-free government. But all the allegations the opposition are making are not true.
What is the impact of anti-conversion law?
Anti-conversion law was there in the Constitution. We have not enacted a new law. We have made some provisions in the law on action to be taken against the offenders. We have included action to be taken against those who were involved in forcible conversion or by bribing or any other means. If a Hindu or Muslim or Christian converts to a different religion, the same law is applicable. Law is not restricted to Hindu religion.
You and Siddaramiah are good friends…. ?
We have been good friends since our college days. Our ideologies were the same. But time put us in different directions. We were both in the same group — Janata party — once upon a time. I went with Ramakrishna Hegde, I joined JDU and Siddaramaiah JDS. Now there is no JDU. We were five MLAs then. For our survival, both joined different parties. No question of uniting again … neither he is leaving Congress nor am I leaving BJP.
Yediyurappa was in the forefront and CM candidate in the last elections. This time he is not the CM candidate. Does it make an impact on the party?
Even this time, Yediyurappa will be at the forefront. He is the leader of the masses.
What is your opinion on Uniform Civil Code?
Women have to be protected irrespective of any religion. The Supreme Court was in favour of the Uniform Civil Code, but then PM Rajiv Gandhi spoiled it. How can we say in one religion the marriage age for women is 18 years and in another 15 years? There cannot be different laws in a country. This has to be amended.