Union Minister Nitin Gadkari, the highwayman who is zipping India into a web of roads & highways, takes questions on a range of issues, from road connectivity to effective waste management, of course, a bit of politics. Excerpts from the 5th edition of Delhi Dialogue, from The New Indian Express.
Nitin Gadkari: Namaskar. I am from Nagpur. I have, in the past, read that politics is the instrument of social and economic reform. So I always tell people that politics consists 80% of social work and 20% of politics. I am doing lots of social work, particularly in agriculture, water conservation and biofuel. I am not so intelligent (yet) and have six degrees, the recent one conferred by Galgotia University. Then there are degrees from Chennai University, SRM and four from Maharashtra.
We are doing many projects in ecology and the environment. I have two philosophies — one is science/tech and another innovation/entrepreneurship. This is helping us convert waste to wealth.
No person is a waste; no material is a waste, either. It depends on the present ecology and vision of a leadership. I will give the example of ‘waste to wealth’: We have three municipal waste mountains in Delhi. One is in Ghazipur, and now we are using 20 lakh tonnes of municipal garbage for the ring road, which is a lifeline for Delhi. We have also used the garbage in the Ahmedabad road construction.
We are adding 15% ethanol. We are also making bio-bitumen from rice stock Parli, and now we are formulating a scheme for Rs 20 lakh. Instead of burning Parli and considering the Delhi pollution, we are converting it to bitumen. That’s why it is a waste to wealth.
In Mathura, we floated a tender for the proposal of a hybrid annuity - 40% from the government and 60%from investors. The Triveni Engineering Company received a 40% grant from the government.
The clean water from this project is given to Mathura Indian Oil, giving Rs 20 crore per year as royalty. It’s a successful project of public-private investment in liquid waste management.
In Nagpur, we sell sewage water to the Maharashtra State Electricity Board and get a royalty. Regarding infrastructure in South India, we are making a double-decker flyover in Chennai starting from Chennai port, which costs around Rs 10,000 crore. We have already started the expressway from Chennai to Bengaluru. In three hours, you can travel from Chennai to Bengaluru. We have completed the Mysore-to-Bengaluru part.
Also, take many examples from Kashmir to Kanyakumari. The Atal tunnel at Rohtang passes from Manali to Rohtang. After that, we come to Ladakh and Leh, and we have a big tunnel called Zojila in Kargil, estimated to cost Rs 12,000 crore. Then we come to the Jhumur tunnel, and then there is Sonmarg and Gulmarg.
At Srinagar, we are making 9 to 11 tunnels from Srinagar to Jammu. Then at Katra, we are in the process of making a big multi-model hub. Before Katra, the road will be linked to the Katra-Delhi expressway.
Now you can travel from Delhi to Amritsar in four hours, Delhi to Katra in six hours and Delhi to Srinagar in eight hours. Coming back to Delhi, there is the Delhi-Mumbai highway that leads to Surat, then to Nasik, to Ahmednagar, to Solapur onwards to Karur.
From Karur, we can go to Chennai, Bengaluru, Kochi and Hyderabad. Therefore, we have connectivity from North to South India and Mumbai to Kolhapur and Solapur. This reduces the distance from Delhi to Chennai by 312 km. In short, this is the connectivity between Kashmir to Kanniyakumari.
Santwana Bhattacharya: It is interesting, your political network and road network both seem to be exemplary. You’re considered to be one of the most performing ministers. However, the daily functioning of Parliament is hindered. Can a workable solution be found?
Nitin Gadkari: The basic purpose of Parliament is discussion. The three pillars of democracy are the legislature, executive, and the judiciary. In the legislature, Parliament is important, where people expect us to discuss issues. Unfortunately, we are not succeeding. Being the ruling party, we try to discuss all issues. However, opposition parties have their agenda. The decision taken by the judiciary has nothing to do with the government (Rahul Gandhi bail issue).
Deepak Mondal: Coming to road transport, many point out that this has been achieved due to a change in the formula for calculating road construction. The government now uses the lane-km method instead of the linear length method.
Nitin Gadkari: There is no change in the formula; it is the same as it was during the UPA government. The formula is the same from Manmohan Singh ji to Narendra Modi ji.
Parvez Sultan: Since 2014, the NHAI debt has increased by 14 times. What are the reasons for this major concern?
Nitin Gadkari: Not at all. We have such a good reputation that we saw over-subscription of (our) bonds by seven times in seven hours on the first day of its listing on the Bombay stock exchange. There is no fund crisis. We are getting money from tolls and money by monetising the roads. We have road assets.
Shahid Faridi: The government has set a target of raising Rs 2 lakh crore by 2024 from the asset monetization programme. An update on the asset monetisation of National Highways?
Nitin Gadkari: We have many projects which we have monetised, but we monetise the project when we need money. Otherwise, we will have to deposit money.
Deepak Mondal: People are not happy with a steep rise in toll charges. There are reports of protests as well. What do you have to say?
Nitin Gadkari: If you want a good service, then you’ll have to pay for it. This is a global practice. Our project has reduced the travel distance from Chennai to Delhi by 312 km. With Delhi Mumbai Expressway, the travel time has been slashed to 12 hours instead of 48 hours. You can now reach Amritsar in 4 hours. Look at how many litres of diesel and hours are saved due to the expressways and highways. If people want facilities, then they will have to pay toll tax.
Rajesh Thakur: Despite a good road infrastructure, accident rates are still high in India. Any strategy?
Nitin Gadkari: Akshay Kumar works for us free of charge, and he is taking seminars (for road safety). But in this country, 5 lakh accidents take place along with 1.5 lakh deaths, 3 lakh people get their hands and legs broken, and 60% of them belong to the age group of 18-24. We are good at everything, but we are unable to control this. We accept that we are not able to reduce the number of accidents.
Kavita Bajeli-Datt: What is the status of the national safety board?
Nitin Gadkari: It has been approved. I have just signed (the file). UP Singh, retired secretary of Water Resources, is the chairman.
Parvez Sultan: You always say that Indian roads will become like in America. What can we expect in the coming days regarding Indian roads?
Nitin Gadkari: Many Delhi journalists who live across the Yamuna thank me individually because it has become easier for them to enter Delhi. Many things will gradually change. Come December 10, flights on the Delhi Dehradun route will be shut down; Delhi-Jaipur flights will shut down as well as it will take two hours to reach Jaipur. Similarly, two hours from Delhi to Haridwar, four hours for Dehradun and two-and-a-half hours for Chandigarh.The Chandigarh-Manali stretch took nine hours.It will now take two hours and 15 minutes because we have made a tunnel -- a direct road from Chandigarh to Manali is ready. Our road infrastructure will soon be like that of America.
Mayank Singh: What is the status of emergency landing strips in the border states and how many will be functional by this year-end?
Nitin Gadkari: In all, there are 89 emergency airstrip proposals. We completed 13. In some places, the Air Force did not permit us, but we will soon complete the remaining emergency airstrips project.
Rakesh Kumar: Are we seeing the same progress in ports as in the case of the national highways?
Nitin Gadkari: We spend Rs 60,000 crore on connectivity between the port and highways. You tell me, which port is left in the country which is not connected to the road? You go to any port, whether Chennai or Mumbai and each of them is connected to the road now.
The port and road connectivity reduces the cost of logistics. Our logistics cost is 16%. The same cost in China is 8-10 %, while it is 12% in the USA and European nations.
We have taken a few important decisions. One is good roads. Secondly, we are changing the type of fuel. Now we are using ANG, CNG, Biodiesel, Ethanol, and Methanol in vehicles. Then we also have electric mobility. There are cheaper alternatives to diesel. The idea is to reduce the cost of transport by changing the fuel. Our objective is to limit the cost of logistics to a single digit by 2024.
Amit Mukherjee: The government is incentivizing/ subsiding electric vehicles. But charging infrastructure for intercity travel seems inadequate.
Nitin Gadkari: Many automobile companies provide charging outlets to their customers. Around 400 EV startups entering the market with their products are also doing their business on the same line.
Today, people only charge their cars, two-wheelers, and electric scooters at their houses. The problem is with buses. There are 1.5 lakh buses with transport authorities of states. All of them are at loss and cannot procure their electric alternatives. However, there is not much issue with the charging infrastructure. We have identified 670 roads where electric charging stations will be available. The work will be completed in 6-8 months. So, I hope there won’t be an issue with taking a long journey.
Arshad Khan: EV vehicles are costly… What is the target for our EV?
Nitin Gadkari: Lithium prices have driven up EV costs, and prices are on the rise. As production increases, the price will correspondingly go down.
How many of you have petrol cars? More than 50% of you will have an electric car when we meet next.
Prabhu Chawla: Will there be the same scrapping policy of 15 years for EVs as in the case for other vehicles?
Nitin Gadkari: Nobody has asked me this intelligent question. To be honest, I don’t have the answer to this question.
Prabhu Chawla: Which other countries have implemented this law?
Nitin Gadkari: Many countries; in the US and Europe. There is air pollution awareness in Western countries, and it’s also percolating in India.
Prabhu Chawla: You are promoting EV. Electricity rates are high and likely to go up further.
Nitin Gadkari: You know the first solar project was launched when Modiji was the Gujarat CM. The first tariff was Rs 16.5 per unit. Now it is 2.40 per unit. We have 30% solar in the power basket. Is it expensive power? When it comes to power rates, there is more generation, more losses, no generation, no losses.
Our power discoms incur losses between 16-18 lakhs. There are three processes...generation, transmission and distribution. Thirty-six per cent of thefts were in the distribution section. Things have changed, though. There is no option but to use thermal power. People have reservations about nuclear power. There is a limited option for geothermal power. Wind power faces restrictions from environmentalists and forest personnel.
Arshad Khan: Last summer, many EVs caught fire. Have you issued new guidelines?
Nitin Gadkari: Guidelines have been issued; we have issued a notification based on international standards. During that time(when the EV caught fire), vehicles were manufactured with some imported parts which were of low quality.
Arshad Khan: When are we getting Tesla?
Nitin Gadkari: No Idea. Those who want to manufacture here are welcome. But, if someone wants to manufacture in China and sell it in India, I am afraid they will not get any concessions.
Santwana Bhattacharya: So that was my question. When are we all going to drive the hydrogen car?
Nitin Gadkari: You are welcome for a drive in (my) Hydrogen car. It is more comfortable than a Mercedes car.
Shahid Faridi: There are reports that you may quit politics. Will you be fighting the next elections?
Nitin Gadkari: Some journalists run some rubbish on the net and then delete it after four hours. In those four hours big media houses start running the story. I am not talking about you. You have credibility. Then four experts sit together and star discussing the issue saying Nitin Gadkari is saying this and that and by evening, there are reports. This is wrong. You should listen to my full speech. I am here. I am quite fit now. I do pranayam for 1.5 hours. I have great positivity now.
Santwana Bhattacharya: I was in Nagpur once, and you spoke entirely about Nagpur santara and how you plan to sell them abroad. I see the transformation in policy approach change as you talk about waste management and waste to wealth. So I can see an evolution in your policies and your entire approach.
Nitin Gadkari: Thanks to Kisan Rail, we have exported 13 trains full of oranges to Delhi, Chennai and Bangladesh.
Now that you have mentioned Ethanol, I raised this issue way back in 2004. I have been requesting that it be time to move to biofuel and alternative fuel areas. People questioned me on my repeated assertions about biofuel. Look at the scenario now: petrol costs Rs 120 and Ethanol Rs 60 per litre.