CMP general secretary C P John, the intellectual face of the UDF, is one of the most astute politicians around. Though some say he is on the wrong side of the political spectrum, John, who along with M V Raghavan formed CMP after splitting from CPM in 1986, insists that he is happy where he is. He talks to TNIE about the rot within the CPM and how Congress needs to up its game if it is to survive.
Edited excerpts:
Are we sitting before the intellectual face of UDF?
(Laughs out...) It is just an allegation.
It’s been 33 years since you joined UDF. Did you even think you would last this long with UDF?
CMP was formed in 1986 but it took us some time to separate the umbilical cord from CPM. Till then, Congress was our prime enemy; but within six months, CPM became our main enemy. It was Express that first reported that MVR (M V Raghavan) will be expelled from the CPM.
How were those initial days?
The initial days were very tough, but we survived much to the chagrin of the CPM. When MVR won Azhikode, CPM got its biggest jolt. MVR winning from its heartland was something CPM never expected. EMS had predicted that we would not last more than six months. But we have proved him wrong.
Was the decision to quit CPM a political call? Or was it because of your loyalty to MVR?
Actually, I was not that close to MVR then, though I had great admiration for the man. In fact, the current CPM state secretary M V Govindan was MVR’s first lieutenant and his favourite. He was indeed the ‘president’ of the MVR fan club. Govindan used to adore him to the extent of imitating him (laughs out). I decided to quit because I believed MVR’s political line was correct.
What was EMS’ role in that?
EMS failed to anticipate the threat posed by BJP; while both (Harkishan Singh) Surjeet and Jyoti Basu were quite aware of the threat posed by the BJP. EMS used to think that BJP is an urban party and that it will never grow big.
Who lost out the most by your exit - CPM or you?
Any split is bad for the Left movement. The responsibility of Left politics is to transform society for the better. Even capturing power is meant for this only. Splits, no matter how small, will result in the weakening of the progressive politics of the Left.
If we come to your specific case...
Once a split happens, many eligible people move out and ineligible people occupy that space. Also, it was a huge trauma for a lot many people. For instance, M V Govindan went through a personal trauma then.
Why then did Govindan not join MVR?
MVR used to admire Govindan’s political skills and he was his favourite. Govindan may not have been able to withstand the pressure from the family and from outside.
Could this also be the reason why E K Nayanar withdrew his support to MVR’s ‘badal rekha’?
To be frank, I was personally closer to Nayanar than to MVR. It was K P R Gopalan’s experience after leaving the party that stopped him. Also, the offer to become the CM.
If you were still in CPM, you could have risen to the very top...You could even have been inYechury’s position today...
There were only two options before me: either surrender or fight. I opted for the latter as that was my psychological comfort. I would not be able to stay in any place against my convictions. If I had decided to play it safe like Govindan, Suresh Kurup, or P Sasi, I would have died of a heart attack by now.
Does that mean you have never regretted it?
You just look at the lives of those who surrendered. All of them, including M V Govindan, were treated like prisoners of war for a long time. He was demoted in the party. Suresh Kurup never became a minister.
But M V Govindan is the state secretary and P Sasi is sitting in one of the most powerful chairs...
Let them be...
Some say Thomas Isaac came up in the party because of the vacuum created by your exit...
That is correct. Isaac occupied the space left by me. But I decided to escape from the Stalinist space.
But you have been sitting in a very rightist space for the last 30-odd years...
I have no qualms in admitting that we decided to be with Congress for our survival. And that was correct then.
How do you assess MVR?
He was the first top-notch political leader to have emerged from the working class. Another quality was that he could evolve... Towards the end, he had transformed a lot and used to joke about his earlier admiration for Stalin.
MVR may have stopped admiring Stalin. But did Stalinist traits leave him?
That was his character trait. Even I am a Stalinist that way...(Laughs out).
Where did Pinarayi Vijayan figure in all this?
Pinarayi was the champion who held the party together in Kannur while MVR was on his way out. VS (Achuthanandan) made him Kannur district secretary as he knew only Pinarayi was capable of taking on MVR. The Kannur district committee is the engine of CPM, and it was very important to retain Kannur.
Was he never a fan of MVR?
Pinarayi had extreme left-wing deviations at one point in time and was very close to MVR. Both had many similar personality traits, too. But they got estranged at some point.
Are you happy with UDF? Do you think you have received your due?
We had four MLAs in 1987 but Congress gave us only two seats. We had to accept that as we had nowhere else to go after coming out from CPM. All we wanted was a safe seat for MVR. But let me tell you that we won’t be satisfied with a single seat in the next assembly election.
How do you view the electoral prospects of UDF?
UDF has been steadily declining since 2006 in assembly elections while BJP has been on the upswing. Congress should do some serious thinking so as not to face the same plight as that of its student wing KSU.
But don’t you think there are other reasons too other than the growth of the BJP?
Congress should not start getting comfortable sitting in the opposition space. If one is not fighting to win, then there is no chance. Congress should play its coalition cards more carefully. It should not have allowed Kerala Congress to leave UDF. On the other hand, CPM and Pinarayi Vijayan are playing the same cards in a very clever way. I would urge UDF to know its enemy better.
Does it mean you are disillusioned with the Congress leadership?
To be frank, I was a bit disheartened after the 2021 election results. But Congress proved me wrong with a thumping victory in the Thrikkakara byelections.
But Thrikkakara was the strongest bastion of Congress...
Not just Thrikkakara, UDF’s anti-K-Rail agitation has proved successful. The political and development strategy of the second Pinarayi government has failed.
Do you think UDF will win if there is an election now?
Now, I am very hopeful.
But, the Opposition is still struggling to make its presence felt...
The thought process of the new crop of Congress leaders is that the era of mass agitation is over. They think fierce straight fights are passe.
If you look at Congress now, what we see is that some leaders are fighting to become its CM nominee...This is despite the humongous failure in the last elections. How do you expect common people to vote for Congress?
I am of the strong opinion that Congress should decide its CM face before the next assembly elections. Congress can choose anyone. That should be completely the party’s prerogative.
How do you view Shashi Tharoor’s entry into the scene?
We will welcome Shashi Tharoor if he is the official CM candidate of Congress. But Congress high command should decide on that. I have no say on that, though he is a close friend.
But IUML has taken a proactive position regarding Tharoor. It could be because IUML thinks UDF has a better chance with Tharoor leading the front...
I would say that IUML interfering in the Congress’ decision-making process is wrong. It should be the prerogative of Congress completely. Nobody should peep into somebody else’s kitchen. That is the basic reason for the problems in UDF.
Tharoor told us earlier that he has options beyond the Congress. It is like Congress needs Tharoor more than Tharoor needs Congress...
Tharoor’s is a lateral entry. Those who have options can consider that. But CMP will not express its opinion unless asked.
How do you look at today’s CPM, your former party?
As I said earlier, the Kannur party unit is the heart of CPM. That has degenerated now. It has always been a semi-terrorist party. But it had a political cover then. Now that cover has blown. CPM is rotten to the core.
That a person like Swapna Suresh had easy access to the CMO is indicative of this degeneration?
Exactly. That a person like Swapna Suresh got access to CMO shows the utter failure of CPM’s party machinery. If CPM had checked at least with Palayam local secretary before hiring Swapna, it would not have landed in this mess.
Who is the reason behind CPM’s decay? Is it Pinarayi Vijayan?
No. It is not his fault. Stalinism is the main reason behind its decay. Apparatus-oriented politics is the reason for the failure of all Communist parties.
Do you think Pinarayi Vijayan is a good administrator?
No. Sabarimala was his biggest mistake. He tried to become a second Sree Narayana Guru by facilitating the entry of women into the shrine. It was Kodiyeri Balakrishnan who salvaged the party by apologising for the mistake.
But people chose the same government for the second time… Doesn’t that expose the inefficiency of the Opposition?
Yes. LDF won for the second time mainly because of UDF’s weakness. The opposition took it for granted. Congress let Jose K Mani go thinking that the result would be a walkover.
Swapna Suresh had recently alleged that the CM’s family is corrupt. You know the family from close quarters for a long time. Do you believe what Swapna said?
I am not saying they are involved as I have no proof. But I would say that Pinarayi has failed to convince otherwise. There have been no counters to Swapna’s allegations. Why is CPM not retorting?
CPM’s position is that an accused in a gold smuggling case like Swapna does not deserve a reply...
Many things that should not have happened have happened in the CMO. How can CM’s private secretary be detained in a woman’s house by neighbors at night? How can the CM let this happen? He should have kept track of the nightlife of his close aide, also should have known him well before giving him absolute power. As a Communist CM, Pinarayi should have been more careful.
Do you know Sivasankar personally?
Yes. He was a close friend of mine - a brilliant mind and one of the most efficient IAS officers. How can a person of his stature fall like this? Degeneration can happen to anyone. I am so saddened by his plight.
Do you think he is corrupt?
I am not saying he took the money. But if he knew that there was a kickback in the deal and he kept quiet about it, that is also corruption. Whether he took the money home or not is immaterial.
You said the CPM got into the gold smuggling controversy as the party lost its control over the government. Now M V Govindan is the new secretary. Do you see any change?
He is a clean, sincere man and is making some efforts to cleanse the party. But I am doubtful whether he will be able to do that.
Kerala is going through a very bad financial crisis. What are the reasons, according to you?
The are some genuine issues like the floods during the previous Pinarayi government. Now there’s a cut in central funds. But my criticism is against the cut in plan expenditure. I will even support the government if it levies a special cess exclusively for the Plan fund.
Is the pay revision implemented in 2021 a major reason for the financial crisis? Is it time to rethink the huge spending on salaries and pensions for government employees?
It is one of the reasons for the present crisis. Pay revision could be made once every 10 years in consultation with employees. I am of the view that salary for employees in the entry cadre should be increased but increment should be stopped at a later stage.
What is the fault with planning under the Pinarayi government?
KIIFB is eating into the plan outlay. Spending through KIIFB undermines the role of local self-governments. The plan spending for local bodies and SC-ST welfare did not see an increase under Pinarayi. Is this the Left model of development?
Coming back to the topic of ‘badal rekha’, CPM ousted MVR because he wanted to have an alliance with Muslim League. But now it seems that CPM is about to accept the same...
(Laughs out). Yes. Though Pinarayi Vijayan was against ‘badal rekha’, he is now implementing the same. He is in the process of creating a coalition that will ensure more than 50% vote share for LDF. I have told Congress leadership to be very careful about it.
So, do you think there is a possibility?
That possibility is always there. You must be careful of one’s sheep. Otherwise, the wolf will catch them (laughs out...)
Have heard that MVR wanted to go back to CPM in his last days...Is it true?
No. He had some reservations about the UDF. But he never wanted to go back to CPM.
Is CPM still your biggest enemy?
BJP is our biggest enemy now.
Have you ever held discussions with CPM leadership on your possible return?
I have no such plans. I am very happy with what CMP has achieved, however small that is. CMP is like an addiction, a good addiction.