Minister Radhakrishnan takes questions from TNIE on moral degeneracy in politics, allegations of communists ‘looting’ revenue from Hindu temples, casteism in Kerala society, and more.
Edited excerpts:
Party workers in Thrissur say you are one of the most polite and unambitious leaders…
I was brought up like that from my childhood. I don’t have any greed for anything. I am satisfied with whatever I have been provided with. That is my nature.
Some say you are a “true communist’’, while some others say you are a “communist with clarity’’.... People probably distinguish you like this because these are rare qualities these days…
No one can be 100% communist. There is no better ideology in the world than communism. It is a concept about a world order where every human being is equal and leads a better life, where everyone is self-sufficient and lives independently. It is about a society where there is no exploitation. It will take time to achieve that goal. That is my thought.
There is a common perception in society that communists should lead a simple life. Many still believe communists should not go beyond kattanchaya and parippuvada (black tea and dal vada)...
(Smiles) In the 1930s, most Keralites had only one pair of garment. Now the situation has changed. Communists, too, have changed according to time. It is a sadistic thought that communists should have only kattanchaya and parippuvada. Words and deeds should be the same; that is important.
What inspired you to become a communist?
My family believed in communism. We lived in an era of inequality and exploitation. The communist party fought against social evils and, naturally, we were inspired by the movement. The ideology changed the world order.
Did the communist movement in India fail to adapt to changes? The protests against computers and tractors had created such an impression…
The social system has changed over time. It is not the same as before. The leadership might have opposed it considering the concerns of the majority over job security. It might have been the right perspective at that time. When we look back, we may realise that there were faults. We correct and move on.
After the LDF got the second consecutive term, people have been joining the party in large numbers. But there is criticism that some of them are joining CPM for personal gains. What are your views?
People who join the party for personal gains may leave the party once their requirements are met. But people who are attracted by ideology will stay on.
Is the party aware of these consequences?
The party is aware of all developments. At every point, it has been reiterated that those committing mistakes will not have any space in the party. We can move ahead only by these corrections. We live in a society where values are degenerating.
Has this degeneracy affected the party, too?
No. If similar degeneration of values occurs within the party, then there is no party. The party has always stood as a guiding light in making our society a progressive one.
That was the case earlier… the communist party used to be one or two steps ahead of society. But now, one gets to see a party walking along with society…
There may be some mistakes, but the party is very careful. Whenever there are deviations, we make course corrections, i d e o l o g i c a l l y a n d organisationally.
SFI is in the news these days for the wrong reasons. Is it a reflection of decadence?
Recently, a person known as Thoppi, a YouTuber, came up. What has this boy done for society? Why did a huge crowd of youth spontaneously gather in a place to see him? The huge crowd, mostly students, gathered at the event. Those who join SFI also come from such crowds.
How will the party look to overcome this challenge?
We have decided to intervene actively.
So , will there be rectification?
Yes, certainly. We will initiate necessary course corrections.
Did the back-to-back election victories cause a slump? No. However, it is possible that many opportunists might try to take advantage of it. But we are prepared on how to deal with such issues.
Why is the party displaying intolerance to criticism? Party leaders, too, are humans. You all must understand that (laughs). If you take a single sentence out of context and circulate that, it may not look good.
You have been part of this government for over two years. What are the decisions that have given you satisfaction?
The very first thing this government decided, in the first cabinet, was to make Kerala a destitute-free state. We want a state where not a single human is hungry. As a person who has experienced hunger, that is one decision that has made me very happy.
In your department?
There is a special focus to bring tribal students to the forefront through proper digitisation. By December 31, all tribal areas in Kerala will have internet connectivity. Another issue that the educated children from tribal areas faced was lack of employment. We have created job opportunities for them. For example, 500 accredited engineers were hired, of which 300 were from SC and 200 from ST. We have also helped students who aspired to become air hostesses.
There are not many MBBS aspirants from the marginalised sections because they cannot afford the expenses for entrance coaching…
It took 50 years for Attappadi to get its first MBBS doctor. With the introduction of model residential schools (MRS) more students from ST and SC communities are getting admissions to MBBS courses. Now Attappadi has six MBBS students, while from the Punnappra MRS, five students secured MBBS admissions, and one got admission in the BDS course.
You had said about the poverty survey for identifying the extremely poor across the state. Of this, are the majority from SC and ST communities?
No, only one-fourth of the families are from these communities. Of the 64,006 identified as extremely poor, only about 15,000 are from sections such as dalits and adivasis. And, of this, around 12,000 are from the SC communities and about 3,000 from the tribes.
Attappadi is often in the news for wrong reasons – infant deaths, malnutrition, etc. It seems as if Attappadi is not part of Kerala…
Compare the infant mortality rate of the state with that of Attappadi. There is not much difference. But the death of an infant in the Attappadi tribal hamlet has more news value than any other death. Premature deliveries happen in other sections of society, too. But when it happens in Attappadi, it becomes news.
But malnutrition is a reality, isn’t it?
There are 192 tribal hamlets in Attappadi and, of these, 185 have community kitchens. These kitchens supply nutritious food. At least 182 anganwadis are also functioning in the area; they also distribute nutritious food. The civil supplies department provides 30kg of rice, 5kg of wheat, pulses and oil to the families. Furthermore, if a woman becomes pregnant, a monthly allowance of Rs 2,000 is given from third month of pregnancy to 18 months after delivery. Then how can there be malnutrition?
You have said that empowerment is more important than reservation to uplift the SC/ ST community. Can you explain this?
We have sponsored 425 students for foreign education in the past 19 months. Among them 375 belong to Scheduled Castes, 26 students belong to Scheduled Tribes, and the rest are from backward classes. We are encouraging them to pursue foreign education as part of the government initiative to empower them. There is no clarity on how long the reservation in education will continue. So we have to make them selfreliant.
You once said brahminism is a mindset, and that hierarchies are there even among tribals…
Yes. There is caste discrimination among the tribal people. There are Brahmins, Kshatriyas and other divisions among them, too. Indian casteism is much deeper than what we see. It was created by people who were very, very intelligent.
So far, only one Dalit leader has found a place in the CPM Polit Bureau. That, too, very recently… Is there discrimination within CPM too?
We are not for tokenism. To create hype, people from the Dalit community were given the chair of the President of India. There was K R Narayanan, Ram Nath Kovind and now [Droupadi] Murmu. But has this improved the lot of dalits and tribals? Emancipation of dalits will not happen through such tokenisms.
In public places, Malayalis do not exhibit caste consciousness. But, in reality, it seems to be deep-rooted. What are your views?
Yes. They are not just caste conscious; they are also propelled by the consciousness of discrimination. This discrimination can be found everywhere. That is why there are honour killings, as it happened in Kottayam (Kevin murder case).
There is a perception that CPM failed to grow beyond Bengal and Kerala because the party failed to understand caste. Do you agree?
The communist party started its work in the 1920s, when the caste system was at its peak. The party did not act without understanding the caste. That was the right view. The party worked to solve the problems of society.
The communist party has always claimed to work for the uplift of the underprivileged classes, but it has been an enemy of Ambedkarites. Why?
We are working with Ambedkarites. We recently conducted an all-India campaign by joining hands with them.
But in Kerala, Amedkarites view CPM as an enemy…
There are very few Ambedkarites in Kerala. It is a state where Dr Ambedkar’s ideologies are implemented better than what is written. So they don’t have much at stake.
During her visit to Kerala, former Supreme Court judge Indu Malhotra had alleged that the communists were trying to take over temples with an eye on the revenue. What is the real story?
The state government does not take a single paisa from temples. Instead, we have provided Rs 458 crore as assistance to temples over the past five years. We are providing Rs 30 crore per year for Sabarimala temple. The government provides funds for infrastructure development at temples. Over the past few years, we provided funds for distribution of salary, pension and to meet temple administration expenses. Still, they allege that we are looting the temples.
What do you do with the revenue generated by temples like Sabarimala?
The funds are used entirely for the running of temples.
The BJP alleges that churches and mosques are allowed to function freely, while the government controls temples…
The temples were run by the government even before the formation of the state. The temples administered by the princely states were handed over to the state in 1956. Then, some temples are taken over as per the request from the public. The Parthasarathy temple in Guruvayur which was taken over by Malabar Devaswom had an income of less than Rs 1 lakh. But the income went up to Rs 6 lakh a month after the takeover.
Another question that’s often raised is why atheists are handling the administration of temples…
I am not handling the administration of temples directly. I am only providing them the facilities. I am not directly involved in administration. You can check the projects implemented by the government for development of temples during the past two years. We have built compound walls and renovated temples and ponds. Has this happened when the temples were administered by the socalled devotees?
There are complaints that the devaswom boards are not allowed to conduct even Bhagavad Gita classes on temple premises...
Some want to use such classes as a medium to further their political agenda. That can’t be allowed.
But is it wrong for the Hindus to study Ramayana or Bhagavad Gita in the temples if the Christians can study the Bible in their churches and the Muslims can learn the Quran in their mosques?
We are providing a different place for that purpose. In the case of the private temples, we are not interfering in the activities that they are indulging in. Vedpadasalas and kshethra kalapeedam are there.
It can be seen that the flow of devotees to temples having non-Brahmin priests is low. Why?
That’s because of the preconceived notion that the pujas done by the Brahmins are the best. There is hesitation in accepting priests from the backward communities.
There is another accusation that nearly all the higher positions in the devaswom boards are occupied by those from the upper-caste Hindus.
Well, who held the administrative reins of the temples? It has been the upper castes. Reservation came only recently. Hence, the imbalance.
Entry of women into the Sabarimala shrine had created quite a headache for the CPM. Do you think the issue was the reason for LDF’s rout in the 2019 elections?
Not at all. The reason for our loss was something else. At that time, there was a strong feeling in Kerala that there should be a regime change at the Centre. The results were mostly a reflection of that thought.
If that was the case, why didn’t you go ahead with the entry of women of menstruating age to Sabarimala?
As a political party, we have our own views on this issue. However, our stance was that we would abide by the court’s verdict.
But was there not an undue haste on the part of the government to implement the order?
If you recollect, the BJP, the Congress and the RSS were all in favour of the verdict. The situation changed after a couple of days. The AICC had described the verdict as a ‘historical judgment’. The BJP and RSS, too, supported the verdict. Later, when they realised that the issue can be politically used, they came out with the protests.
But why didn’t the CPM realise the political strategy of the opponents?
If we had not taken a neutral stance, we would have faced problems. A section would have criticised that the so-called progressive government run by communists were not allowing women’s entry despite the verdict being welcomed by the Congress and BJP.
But it would not have resulted in the loss of 19 out of 20 Lok Sabha seats…
That was not the reason. As I mentioned earlier, the electorate were thinking along the national context.
You were part of the 1996 LDF government along with Pinarayi Vijayan. There is an allegation that you have been given the relatively less important portfolio despite your seniority.
First of all, I don’t agree that it’s a less important portfolio. How can a department that is meant to uplift the poorest sections of society be considered an unimportant portfolio?
But there are other highprofile portfolios such as finance, tourism, etc…
People like you should not say this. There is a vested interest in projecting some portfolios as good and others are bad. I would say the task of ensuring the welfare of the poorest in our society is the most important portfolio.
Coming back to our first question of you being a ‘unique communist’.... Let me clarify…
I am not unique at all...
But many people think so probably because you never were a part of groups in the party, or had a godfather...
I believe in an ideology that works for equality and good for all... that is communism. I am someone who has faced all sorts of discrimination in my life. All those experiences may have made me conscious and convinced about my paths.