It may be a coincidence that P M A Salam, who was an ally of the CPM for nearly two decades, is now at the helm of the IUML, at a time when his party is clashing with Samastha, the religious body of Sunni Muslims, over its perceived warming up to the communists.
It may also be a coincidence that Salam, a Mujahid by faith, has been assigned to take on the powerful Sunni group that has traditionally been the IUML’s vote bank.
The vocal and witty IUML state general secretary was at his sarcastic best while interacting with TNIE on a wide range of issues, including his ongoing feud with Samastha leaders, the hijab conundrum, the love-hate relation between the League and CPM, and Rahul Gandhi.
Excerpts
The IUML and you have been in the news these days. The latest is that some Samastha leaders have met Leader of Opposition V D Satheesan, seeking his intervention in the League-Samastha tussle...
Who are the leaders? Why their names and photographs didn’t appear in the media? I am not sure they have met Satheesan.
Your remark that a phone call from Chief Minister Pinarayi Vijayan means everything to a few religious leaders turned out to be controversial. Many believe that you were targeting Samastha and its supreme leader Syed Muhammad Jiffiri Muthukoya Thangal…
The remark was made in the backdrop of [CPM leader] Anil Kumar’s statement that Muslim girls in Malappuram have started giving up hijab due to CPM’s encouragement. Naturally, all believers have the responsibility to ask whether the CPM is trying to eliminate beliefs and rituals related to Islam. I made this comment because, of the 23 religious organisations, only a few responded. It was such a harmless statement.
What Anil Kumar had said was that the CPM backed women who wanted to voluntarily give up the hijab. Do you view that as interference?
Yes. As per the Islamic faith, the hijab is mandatory.
Can a Muslim woman without the hijab be part of the Muslim League?
If one is a Muslim woman, she should wear the hijab. We do advise Muslim women who are part of the League to wear the hijab. Back to your remark on religious leaders, it came in the backdrop of the ongoing tussle between the League and the Samastha. Though you insist it was not aimed at anyone in particular, it was widely perceived that the remark targeted Jiffiri Thangal.
Never. It was a general statement expressing our sentiments. All I asked was whether religious leaders were content with receiving a call from the chief minister.
Despite your clarification, why do Samastha leaders believe your remark was aimed at them? Even Jiffiri Thangal felt so.
(Laughs). Isn’t there a saying in Malayalam, ‘Kinnam kattavante thalayil...’?
Being a political party in the opposition front, the IUML can lock horns with the government. But why should Samastha, a religious organisation, do the same?
Samastha has every right to decide its policies. Similarly, the Muslim League has the right to decide its policies. Samastha is not a feeder organisation of the IUML, nor is it vice-versa. But if they attack the League’s political policies or try to portray them in a misleading manner, we cannot remain silent.
League state president Panakkad Syed Sadiq Ali Shihab Thangal said the Samastha’s brain stood with the League. So, does its heart lie elsewhere?
(Chuckles) All organs will be where the brain is. Isn’t that how it is?
So, are the points of friction aberrations? Or, is there an affinity towards the CPM within a section of Samastha?
There are no divisions within Samastha. The CPM has been trying to intrude into Samastha.
Until recently, Samastha and the League were seen as the two sides of the same coin. But now Samastha has an identity of its own…
That’s a wrong perception. Samastha and League have always had separate identities. However, the leadership of both vests with the Panakkad family. There’s neither League nor Samastha without the Panakkad family.
Samastha now directly contacts the state government, while earlier this was done only via the League. Is this what irks the League?
That, actually, is a relief for us. When someone else does things that they ought to do, it’s a relief. We don’t have to bear that burden, too.
What then is the real issue?
The basic issue is clear. A few people in Samastha have been indulging in political attacks against the League. If anyone attacks the League, we will respond, irrespective of religion, caste, politics or organisation. When we respond, they portray it as anti-Samastha.
You maintain that Sadiq Ali Thangal makes the final call in IUML. However, after the CIC (Confederation of Islamic Colleges) general body meeting, his position appears to have weakened within the party.
Never. He is in a strong position. The party machinery is efficient.
The question is whether Thangal has become weaker in IUML?
Never. Within the party and among the general public, Thangal enjoys great respect and relevance like never before.
The Panakkad family used to be considered the political and spiritual leadership of the Muslim community at large. But now, there is a feeling the spiritual leadership has gone to Samastha, while Sadiq Ali Thangal has been limited to the level of a political leader.
Not at all. Samastha or Muslim League cannot exist without Panakkad Thangal. The family remains at the leadership of both (spiritual and political).
Whether you agree or not, it is a fact that Sadiq Ali Thangal does not enjoy the clout commanded by his predecessor in the party, UDF, or in state politics. Why would one play blind to reality?
It is a misunderstanding created by vested interests.
Is there a reluctance to recognise Sadiq Ali Thangal as he is relatively young?
He (Thangal) has years of experience. He was the state president of the Samastha Kerala Sunni Students’ Federation for many years. It became an energetic organisation under him. Thangal knows things, and how to intervene when needed.
Sadiq Ali Thangal may be a good politician. But the spiritual command that was present in his predecessors seems to be missing in him. This is said to be the root cause of issues…
Such views are part of a smear campaign. The spiritual power present in the Panakkad family has only increased. There is a deliberate campaign to prove otherwise.
Would it be right to say that the present problems are because Sadiq Ali Thangal was not included in Samastha Mushavara (governing council)?
What is the requirement for Sadiq Ali Thangal to go to mushawara? We believe that he can be a member today if he wants. He has never made any such demand. The mushavara members meet Thangal before declaring its decisions.
Thangal made a speech indicating that one would get heaven by working in the Muslim League...
Who said that? He didn’t say so.
There are videos…
Such videos and posters are fake.
Will someone get heaven if he or she votes for the Muslim League?
The Muslim League never said such a thing. Voting is not the only precondition for getting heaven; there are many other things.
The League has been out of power for two terms. If it continues to be in opposition for another five years, even its survival will be in doubt. This realisation could be pushing Samastha closer to the CPM. Why insist that things should be done through the League alone?
What has Samastha achieved for the Muslim community solely through its efforts, without the League’s support?
Its intervention in the Waqf Board appointment issue...
It was the Muslim League that launched a strong protest and organised a massive rally within four days [of the decision to bring Waqf Board appointments under PSC]. The chief minister got scared and retracted the decision. Can you point out a single example that proves Samastha’s claim?
The RSS alleges that Pinarayi does everything that Samastha wants. From the point of view of Samastha, it is to their credit that they get whatever they want…
Can you ask these people at least one example for such assertions? It is wrong to say that things are getting done through Samastha, and that Pinarayi yields to all its demands. In a democratic system, it is political parties that should handle such things.
Do you believe the CPM is struggling to comprehend the dynamics of the Muslim community?
All their attempts have been miserable failures. The candidates they field in Malappuram have nothing to do with communism or the Left movement. In Nilambur, the party brought in [P V] Anvar. What is the sum total of Anvar’s activities till now? They projected K T Jaleel for some time. What is the ideological gain from these persons?
There are many prominent Muslim faces in the CPM, such as Mohamed Riyas, A N Shamseer, and A A Rahim. Wouldn’t this attract more Muslims to the CPM?
No. People like Shamseer and Rahim are communists, right from their SFI days. They are in top posts not because they are Muslims, but because they are communists.
Shamseer was attacked for his comment related to Lord Ganapati and myths. Do you believe that it was because he has a Muslim name?
Maybe. However, we also oppose Shamseer’s stance. Why should one go against beliefs? Those who believe it as myth can do so, and those who consider it real can have their views as well.
Isn’t the Muslim representation in the Congress – whether in the Assembly or Lok Sabha – an issue?
Not merely in the Congress, in Kerala, the Muslim community didn’t get what it deserved as per the population ratio. Even the Muslim League didn’t get the due representation. This should be pondered over seriously.
Why is it that communal issues are discussed only when the Muslim League seeks more seats? There are no such issues when parties such as Kerala Congress raise similar demands…
There is such a culture in Kerala. Even now, some say on television channels that communal equilibrium will be disturbed if the Muslim League asks for more seats. But when we question it, they say we are being communal.
Sources in the Congress say Rahul Gandhi may not be contesting from Wayanad this time. According to them, Rahul winning in Wayanad with the backing of Muslim League turned out to be damaging for the Congress in north India…
Why Rahul Gandhi alone? If that is the case, all the Congress MPs from Kerala must be feeling the same shame of having received League’s support. This is my response to your question, not a general statement.
The Congress has a genuine reason to worry, as the situation in north India is different. There, the name ‘Muslim League’ still brings back the memories of Partition and Jinnah. The Congress, apparently, wants to avoid this ignominy…
If that is why Rahul Gandhi is not contesting from Wayanad, the Congress should decide that it would not join hands with the League in Kerala. Earlier, Rahul and the Congress tried out soft Hindutva. But the party failed miserably. The Congress realised the mistake and it won Karnataka solely on secular plank.
But, the Congress is playing aggressive Hindutva cards in north India this time. It has come to a stage where it is difficult to distinguish between BJP and Congress campaigns…
If Congress decides to play the Hindutva card, it will fail miserably again.
So, you believe Rahul must contest from Wayanad this time, too?
The Congress should take a call on that; the League will not say anything. The League will ensure that anybody who contests from Wayanad will win the election.
There were efforts from the CPM to get the League into the LDF. Did the League show interest at any point of time?
We are part of the UDF and INDIA front at the national level. It is the political situations that decide the ties of political parties. There is no such situation that warrants a change.
This question comes because veterans like P K Kunhalikutty are rarely seen criticising the CPM even as leaders like K M Shaji and M K Muneer go all out…
Kunhalikutty Sahib has his style. He never goes on the aggressive mode. Shaji has another style. That does not mean there are any differences within the party.
Kunhalikutty was seen in a government campaign on waste management…
Waste management is a subject that is close to his heart. Even the high court had appreciated his efforts earlier. The Vengara panchayat in his constituency has done many impressive works on that front. Waste management is an issue that affects every citizen, and if the government is doing something good, what is wrong in taking part in that?
Samastha also says the same…
Our problem with Samastha is that it never criticises the CPM, even when it is wrong (laughs).
Kerala’s cooperative sector is going through testing times. The CPM alleges that the BJP wants to destroy it. What is the League’s position on the issue?
Our cooperative sector is one of the best in the country. It is closely linked to the lives of lakhs of common people. That sector should not be allowed to collapse. If there have been any lapses or corruption, that should be addressed properly. The BJP is trying to destroy Kerala’s cooperative sector. This must be resisted at all costs. All political parties must join hands together.
The League recently issued a statement demanding caste census. But the NSS and SNDP have opposed it.
The decision regarding caste census was taken by the Congress high command. How can the KPCC not go ahead with that? It will have to.
Do you think the Congress will be able to go ahead when NSS is opposing the move?
The NSS is not a member of the INDIA coalition (chuckles). The Congress should be able to convince those who oppose it.
There is a perception that the Muslim community, especially its youth, is getting closer to the CPM. The BJP alleges that CPM of Muslim appeasement…
The BJP levels such baseless allegations against all political enemies. They did the same with Rahul Gandhi. Now they are doing the same with Pinarayi. What else do they have to say? Communalism is their only card. Meanwhile, it is a fact that the rating of the second LDF government is dropping every day. The minority communities that voted for LDF in 2021 have realised their mistake.
If we look at the Congress, there are four or five CM candidates. Do you believe Shashi Tharoor can improve the chances of Congress?
Tharoor is a good leader, and he is popular. But it is up to the Congress party to decide on that.
So, the League has no special affection for Tharoor?
(Chuckles) We love every leader.
Ramesh Chennithala was an efficient leader of opposition. Will you support him if the UDF comes to power?
Why can’t a League MLA become the CM candidate (laughs out)? Instead of trying to make somebody from another party the CM, can’t we try to get a league MLA as the chief minister (laughs again)?
So, shall we say that Salam states the IUML, too, in the CM fray?
Why not (chuckles)?
When you became the general secretary of IUML, there was a talk that you were Kunhalikutty’s nominee. Is that correct?
I am the nominee of Thangal, I am the nominee of Kunhalikutty sahib, Muneer sahib… I am the nominee of every member of the League (chuckles).