For long, women in the Muslim community were not encouraged to study. But over the past 15 to 20 years, there has been a remarkable growth in education, especially among girls. How do you look at it?
It is strange, in a way… Earlier, if we started educational institutions for girls, there would just be two or three girls. But now 70% of the students in medical colleges are girls. What is strange is, boys are becoming useless. Secondly, girls do not have any interest in social matters. The third issue is, when girls get more education, they obviously look for more qualified men for marriage. This is a social issue.
Why is it a social issue?
My community is very patriarchal. Girls worship intelligence, while men worship beauty. That creates an imbalance in society.
What kind of problems did MES face from the community?
The biggest crisis happened when we banned the niqab.
Is the ban still in existence?
Yes.
Wasn’t it part of the dress code?
What actually happened was that a girl wearing niqab was given admission to the NRI MBBS seat by the entrance commission. What can we do in such a situation? Fortunately, a court in Karnataka ordered that the management can decide the dress code. Our prospectuses are very specific about the dress code, and according to that, niqab is not allowed. That girl left the college. As she was the last student, we lost that money. But MES decided to take a stand even if it cost us money.
But some people think that niqab is a choice...
What choice? I have the right to know who is sitting in front of me. If a fully masked person comes and sits in front of us, how can we know whether it is a male or a female or even a terrorist?
How about hijab?
We are not against hijab. Don’t women belonging to Rajput, Jat, Maratha and other groups also wear head coverings? So putting cloth on the head is part of the culture everywhere. Even Indira Gandhi and Pratibha Patil wore a piece of cloth over their heads. It is part of their aristocracy.
You had come under severe criticism during the niqab controversy…
If a girl wearing niqab joins our class, it also affects the faculty. If an external examiner comes and asks who is writing the exam, what will we say? What’s the guarantee that the same student who took admission here is writing the exam? So the decision was purely based on practical reasons. Not only that, niqab is not required in Islam. Such a practice is not followed even in Islamic countries. Watch old movies. None of the women in ‘Manithaali’ and ‘Kuttikuppayam’ wear niqab. Niqab did not exist in our country until the nineties.
This trend started from the ‘90s. What’s the reason?
There are three reasons. One is Aryanisation, second is Arabisation, and third is westernisation. Living together, homosexuality... all came about through westernisation.
But isn’t westernisation deemed to be more progressive?
No. Westernisation sees women only as a commodity. Porn industry and modelling industry are proof of that. Girls used in the porn industry are trafficked from Czechoslovakia and eastern European countries.
Do you mean to say homosexuality is a bad thing?
Jyothika’s character in ‘Kathal’ suffered for 20 years. They had sex only four times. The wife is the victim of homosexuality. And these homosexual people learnt these things from paedophilia. The sexual harassment reported in madrassas and at schools was actually against boys.
You are a doctor, and are you still saying that homosexuality is wrong?
Yes, I am a neurologist. As a doctor, I say homosexuality is a perversion. What will you do if my choice is bestiality?
Is it correct to compare beastliness and homosexuality? Why can’t homosexuality be seen as normal?
When people who are homosexual get married, they behave as bisexuals.
But couldn’t that be because of societal pressure? In ‘Kathal’, Mammootty’s character had pressure from his father…
Isn’t that pressure there on everyone? Basically, if your father pays for your studies, you should listen to what he says. You have to live by listening to your parents.
But when it comes to sexual orientation...
I have given my opinion.
Earlier, you compared Arabisation and westernisation. Democracy comes from westernisation…
Equality exists in Islam. Which other religion has equality? There is SC/ST in Christianity but not in Islam.
But there are Pasmanda Muslims in north India who are considered outliers…
Very few. Pasmanda Muslims belong to the OBC category. They are very few in number. The funny thing is if you make a little money, this caste and religion is not an issue in Islam. The democracy in America is made of pennies. People become presidents by spending huge amounts of money. So its democracy has no great value. Or else, will Trump ever become president?
Many women attended the Palestine rally of IUML. Something unusual….
These days, there are highly educated girls in the community. If they too are not reached out to, they will go to the communist party (chuckles).
Is it correct to say IUML is a secular party while BJP is called a Hindu party?
League is not anti-Hindu but BJP is anti-Islam. There is a big difference between these.
Do religious bodies like Samastha influence politics?
Let me ask you a question. Are you voting according to the directives of any religious organisation? No, nobody votes like that. Sukumaran Nair, Vellappally Natesan and Samastha have no vote bank in Kerala.
But Samastha…?
Who cares? They don’t have any right over us.
So, does Samastha have no authority over an Islamic believer?
Samastha, Mujahids, or Jamaat have no role in beliefs. Actually, they are all practically the same with a few differences of opinion.
Is it that simple? Compared to Hinduism, doesn’t Islam interfere with a person’s life from birth to death?
When a child is born, Christians baptise it. No such thing is there in Islam. A father just says: ‘Welcome to Islam’ in child’s ear. So, once you become Islam, you will be Islam until you die. And wedding needs only two witnesses. Now about death. In death, there are Namaz Janaza prayers. It is performed by the son. Thus, there is a system in Islam, which starts from the father and ends with the son.
Didn’t Muslim League oppose you for these progressive thoughts?
These are not progressive ideas. This is the original idea of Islam. Isn’t there a move to return to the Vedas now? We are against that too. Sanatana Dharma is a Brahmanical concept. A common man belonging to tribal caste or OBC does not even know what it is. Likewise, there are similar issues of faith among Christians.
So, is CPM cosying up to Samastha for nothing?
(Chuckles) It will serve no purpose other than causing confusion. But it is a fact that many people are now going to CPM.
Is it then a fact that Malappuram has started turning red?
There is a common feeling that only CPM can oppose the Sangh Parivar. And when Muslim problems arise, the communist party has a bold stand. They were the first to say that there should be a federal system in the country. They had a stand on the Ayodhya issue too.
Congress too held a rally on the Palestine issue…
But it was very late by then.
There is a view that the minorities, especially Muslims, lean Left these days...
Yes. But they are not IUML voters, but traditional Congress voters. So, IUML will not be affected.
But Congress had won most seats in 2019…
That was because of the Sabarimala issue.
Is there any chance of 2019 getting repeated in 2024?
Unlikely… Honestly, I would say LDF has been winning steadily since the 2006 assembly elections. During Oommen Chandy’s term, LDF lost by just two seats (chuckles).
We have been hearing rumours that the League may shift to LDF…
That would be suicidal.
For IUML?
For both groups. If the League shifts to the LDF, the Congress will wither away in Kerala.
But for how many years should the League stay away from power only to save the Congress?
Isn’t the League the party of the Muslim community? Let them stay out of power for a while… (smiles).
What factors will influence the Kerala voters in 2024?
The Christian community has not had good relations with the Muslim community for some time.
They never were...
I am not talking about the Crusades. We had a UDF which was primarily a Christian-Muslim alliance. Now there is a crack. Especially among the Catholics. Actually, Catholics are trying to please Modi. They have a fear that the ED will look into their source of money (laughs).
Do you think Congress has a leadership crisis?
Does the Congress have a leadership for that? (laughs)
Do you doubt it?
I do doubt it (chuckles).
So what future do they have?
What future (laughs)!
What about the INDIA front?
(Laughs) What is the use of a front?
You say Congress has no future... But you want Muslim League to stay with the Congress…?
I will not say that there is no future. But what I said is that Congress is reduced to fighting only 250 Lok Sabha seats. So they should learn coalition politics.
Will the minorities’ leaning towards CPM affect the Lok Sabha elections?
We cannot talk about that now. It was an appraisal of Pinarayi Vijayan’s governance that we saw in the 2021 assembly elections.
Is there any concern for minorities?
In the communist cabinet, most of the ministers are from the Nair community. In Congress, all top leaders too are from the Nair community.
CPM has Pinarayi..
Head is Ezhava but the body is Nair (smiles).
Party secretary M V Govindan...
I spoke about the cabinet… not about the party… I am saying that the communist party is not concerned over caste politics.
BJP alleges that CPM is trying to appease Muslims…
Give me an example.
The government backtracks from handing over Waqf board appointments to PSC…
It was a wrong decision. Employees of the Waqf board cannot be selected through PSC. I personally spoke to the CM. I asked him to conduct an exam similar to Tirupati. The CM understands such things.
Those who observe Malabar politics say that the League is getting influenced by Jamaat e Islami...
That is not true… Jamaat e Islami’s ideology is that of an Islamic state. It is entirely different from Muslim League’s ideology. How many votes do they have? They might have 70,000 votes in Kerala, but the Muslim votes number 70 lakh.
Congress performed badly in the recent assembly elections…
Congress’ strategy is a failure. Rahul Gandhi doesn’t have the calibre of Indira Gandhi.
Do you see a possibility for Congress if Tharoor is made a CM candidate?
Shashi Tharoor is politically immature. He sometimes makes immature comments.
His Hamas comment?
Not only that. The problem with Tharoor is that he is a historian and a diplomat, and moreover, he is a writer. It is very hard for him to balance all these roles. That’s why he made the Hamas comment and even tried to praise Modi.
But do you see such a possibility?
No chance, especially after this election failure. There is no high command in Delhi to decide on the CM candidate. So the MLAs in Kerala will decide who will become the CM. This will affect K C Venugopal’s prospects as well. He was trying to come in as the high command’s nominee (laughs).
Who will then become the Congress’ CM candidate?
Anybody can… (laughs). There is Chennithala, V D Satheesan... Chennithala is a good politician while Satheesan is a good parliamentarian.
K Sudhakaran?
Sudhakaran… (chuckles).
How do you rate the Pinarayi government?
Some media houses are trying to air propaganda against the government. Don’t know how much they will succeed. But Nava Kerala Sadas has been a huge success.
Why do you say Nava Kerala Sadas is a success?
It has had huge public participation.
Is that a criteria to rate success, because Oommen Chandy’s Janasamparka Programme too was a success...
There is a difference. When someone talks on the stage, the CM takes down notes like children. After the programme, he will even point out if there are any mistakes. He is a very serious person. He is well studied. Oommen Chandy would sign papers without studying them.
But there was instant justice in Oommen Chandy’s...
Was there any justice at all? He will sign any paper. Even I got a sign but never got any benefit. Then again, Oommen Chandy was very charismatic…
Do you agree with Pinarayi supporting attacks against the Youth Congress.
Pinarayi has a strong personality. His background could have influenced his personality.
One finds Fazal Gafoor’s ideologies often contradictory…
See, basically I’m a Periyarist. My language is Malayalam, but my culture is south Indian. But then, Periyar was an atheist, I’m not. That in itself is a contradiction (laughs).
TNIE team: Cithara Paul, M P Prashanth, Anil S, Lakshmi Athira, E Gokul (photos), Pranav V P (video)