Former Union minister and veteran Congress leader Margaret Alva played a key role in drafting the Women’s Reservation Bill during the Rajiv Gandhi government. The Women’s Reservation Bill 2023 (128th Constitutional Amendment Bill) or Nari Shakti Vandan Adhiniyam passed by the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha recently allocating 33% reservation to women should be implemented immediately without any delay, Alva, who also served as a governor, told TNSE editors and reporters.
Excerpts:
Your views on the Women’s Reservation Bill as you played a key role with a similar initiative when Rajiv Gandhi was prime minister?
I was the minister for women and child development then. When we were onboard a special flight from Bengaluru to New Delhi, Rajiv Gandhi asked us why the impact of all our investments on women’s programmes did not show any changes on the ground. He said working on an annual budget will not help us as there is no continuity.
After discussion, Rajiv suggested working out a ten-year plan up to 2000 to ensure that the women will be on equal footing when they enter the next century. Then, we selected 14 sectors for women’s development and each sector had an expert committee. One of the sectors was political participation and empowerment of women. We felt that women unless brought into the mainstream of decision-making in local bodies and various areas, their voice would never be heard. In the first Parliament, we had 24 women MPs and today we have 78 but it is under 15%.
We rank 103 out of 140 countries as per the IPU (Inter-Parliamentary Union) analysis for women's representation. That time, we were far behind. One of the recommendations of the committee was that a quota system of 33% from panchayats to Parliament would open the doors for women to come into the political mainstream.
What was the response when it was presented in the cabinet?
When I presented it before the cabinet there was a furore. The members opposed it. Rajivji was supposed to be on my side, but he had to remain neutral in the cabinet. As far as political reservation was concerned, they said no. The cabinet adjourned. Rajivji called me and said it was impossible to push it through.
He suggested that we work on panchayats and urban local bodies. So, we started working on it in 1988 on local bodies for 33% reservation for women. The Bill was passed in the Lok Sabha but defeated in the Rajya Sabha. It was like Rajivji’s last wish had been buried. Eventually, we lost the polls and Rajivji was assassinated. Nobody talked about it later.
In 1993, when the PV Narasimha Rao government came to power and I was also in the ministry, the Bill was brought back as the constitutional amendment for reserving 33% of seats for women in panchayats and urban local bodies, as well as for posts and positions in those bodies. The Bill was passed. It was the first step towards a 33% quota for women. As a result, today about 16-17 lakh women get elected to local bodies. They hold various posts, including mayors and ZP presidents. Now, about 60% of women get elected as they win even from general seats.
Then apprehension started among men that the same thing could happen in the Assembly and Lok Sabha and there was hesitation to pass the Bill, which was defeated in 1996, 1998, 1999, 2003, 2005, 2008 and 2010. It came to the Rajya Sabha in 2011 and was passed. In the Lok Sabha, we did not have the numbers in the coalition government led by Manmohan Singh. When BJP came to power in 2014 they had an absolute majority and almost every political party had the 33% quota in their manifesto. It could have been passed easily as nobody would have opposed it.
Ultimately it has been passed. What next?
Most of the clauses are the same. On the rotation of constituencies, we had suggested that the reservation should be for 30 years, instead of 15, with each seat reserved for two elections as it will work as an incentive for a woman to develop confidence to contest from a general constituency. But that has been rejected. Then the question of quotas within quotas arises. We had said SC/STs who already have reservations should be given 33% to women.
Then the question of OBCs came. Earlier, Congress had never said it and it is a new element Congress has now introduced. Rahul has apologised inside and outside Parliament that we did not put it in. We were not against quota for the OBCs, but our point is when there was no reservation for OBCs in Parliament, for the other seats why are you trying to battle with guns on the shoulders of the women’s Bill? I am glad and congratulate the Prime Minister and the government for passing it now.
Do you think everybody understood the need for it and passed the bill?
I do not want to bring politics into this. But I must say even BJP women are not happy, but they do not say anything publicly. There was so much euphoria when they announced the Bill was about to come before Parliament that I did not sleep the whole night. The important thing is that the Bill has passed and the first law to be made in the new Parliament House is a great tribute to Indian women and their role in the freedom movement and political field.
They said it would be in the statute book and implemented after the next census and delimitation of constituencies. The census was to come in 2021 but was postponed due to Covid. It will be done in 2026. If it is in 2026, how will you know this government will be there? It will take at least three years, given the size and intricacies and not one year.
We have to go for the delimitation which is going to be the last straw on the camel’s back as southern states are not going to accept the formula. We are going to lose seats for so-called ‘Bimaru’ states that have done nothing for population control and stabilising the economy. For every Rs 100 we contribute to the central exchequer, we get back Rs 30, whereas Bihar which puts Rs 30, gets Rs 100. Our money, the taxpayers’ hard-earned, is going to these states. Now, they are taking away our seats and giving it to them (Bimaru states).
Like the opposition to Hindi imposition, there would be no consensus on the delimitation formula (creating constituencies based on population). We do not know how many elections and governments should change for the consensus to be arrived at. I do not think it will happen even in the 2029 elections as it will be kept in abeyance, despite being it in the statute book as a law. But why keep only women’s Bill in abeyance? If you are serious about it, give us a 33% reservation in the 2024 polls as it is a law, of the book. Which law gives you the authority to say that it will come into force later?
Women are now beginning to realise that it is just a sham and they are not serious about it at all. It is like giving a lollypop to a crying child and making it quiet for some time, but it is likely to boomerang.
If it has to be implemented for the 2024 polls, what needs to be done?
It can be done straight away. It is by ballot you choose the reserved constituency and you put 542 constituencies into the box state-wise and you can choose by taking out 33%. They will become women’s reserved seats. You need no new infrastructure, no new legislation as it is there in the statute book. You just have to tell the ECI to go ahead and in fact, the ECI should act on its own, with a law like this before it. But these preconditions (the census and the delimitation) are uncalled for and this is what women are bitter about.
Does it need a political will?
They (the BJP government) knew all along that they did not want to do it. But before the elections, they had to present the PM as a saviour of the women of India and blame the previous governments that they did not do it, but Modiji did it. That is the slogan: “We have done all that you have failed to do.” I was watching a TV show with some senior people saying that it will not be implemented in the next ten years, given all these conditions. Till then, women are supposed to fight on their own without women’s reservations.
Should the 15-year cap for reservations be removed?
In my opinion, what I have fought for all along is that it must be 30 years. Unless you give two consecutive terms, there will not be an incentive for women to develop the constituency. There have also been discussions on dual member constituencies — men and women. Will a man allow a woman to function? Is it going to work? Men are not prepared to share equally even in the family, where are they going to allow it in a constituency?
In 2024, why not political parties take the initiative on their own and give 33 per cent of tickets to women, instead of waiting for a law?
Congress passed a resolution ages ago for 33% reservation in elected bodies and the party working committee. But how many Pradesh Congress Committees have women presidents? How many women have been accommodated in the working committees?
Why is it so? Is it the winnability factor or they are not just interested in implementing it?
As far as the party’s internal elections are concerned, there is no question of winnability as they are normally nominated. There is no excuse. It’s all the infrastructure created by men for their protection and their empowerment. Women are only a subtitle.
Women have achieved so much in many fields. Should we be even talking about reservations for women and equality?
Women have emerged successful despite the male-dominated infrastructure in which they work and every effort to keep them out. How many political parties are giving seats to women? In many countries, they have a list system where every alternate seat has to go to a woman or one in five seats should go to a woman. Look at the figures in our region.
We are behind Bangladesh, Pakistan and Nepal, which are seen as backward. We are lagging so far behind Asian countries. In the Inter-Parliamentary Union, we stand at the 103rd position. If people had treated women as equal citizens and partners in development, we wouldn’t have asked for reservations. But the whole mindset — political, socio-economic and religious -- is such that women should not get a chance.
I was the party central election committee member for 10 years and I know how difficult it is to get a woman’s name cleared. There was a woman from Tamil Nadu who gave all her life to the party. Elected twice, she was in her 50s and members opposed giving her another chance, saying she was old. I said if age was the criterion, half of the members sitting around the table were not eligible as many were in their 70s. Women have to stand up and fight for their constitutional rights.
Most of the women who get tickets are from families that have political backgrounds. Why is it so?
I suppose it’s because they are better equipped and experienced with the campaigns and so on. But there are so many first-timers coming now. But there are difficulties like finance, funding and lack of muscle power.
You appreciated Modi for introducing the Bill. But to whom should the credit go?
It was Rajiv Gandhi’s idea and it was his push that brought this to the national platform. Everyone was against it. The Bill was defeated in the Rajya Sabha in 1989. Where are the parties that are claiming the credit now? Smriti Irani says Jan Sangh conceived the idea in 1955. Success has many fathers. It came up so many times but was not passed as there was no support. Even during the UPA rule in 2011, it was defeated in the Lok Sabha.
If this bill is implemented in 2024, what changes can you see in the next 10 years?
One has to see what changes have come at the grassroots level after women's reservations came into panchayats. UN reports say the developmental agenda has changed, the human side of development has started to emerge, the status of women in rural areas has changed and a lot of issues have come into focus, like drinking water, mid-day meals, anganwadis, health centres, the staff, sanitation and toilets. All these issues affect women’s lives.
Who brings water to the house? It’s women! Therefore, women are demanding drinking water. Even women in rural areas are making such demands. The whole approach to development has undergone a change. There is money, but women’s needs are
never understood.
Were women given more prominence during British time?
I don’t know. When Jawaharlal Nehru became Prime Minister, he brought in three women for home, finance and external affairs portfolios... not as cabinet ministers, but as deputy ministers. My mother-in-law was in Home. Nehru without reservation brought women out and three important portfolios were given to women, which they do not do now. We are now given women and child development, education, Kannada and culture and rural health. I wish they had brought reservations right from the first elections in India post-Independence. Things would have been different.