On one side, the Karnataka government is coming under pressure to implement the socio-economic and educational survey, while on the other, there is strong opposition to it.
The ‘caste census’, as it is known, is on the boil after former Karnataka State Commission for Backward Classes (KSCBC) chairman K Jayaprakash Hegde submitted the report to Chief Minister Siddaramaiah in February this year, just before the Lok Sabha dates were announced.
The report was earlier compiled and submitted by H Kantharaj, who had served as KSCBC chairman for three years, during which the survey was conducted. An apprehensive Kantharaj told The New Indian Express that all efforts were made to draw up the report without any discrimination or lapse.
How did you go about the caste survey?
In 2014, I was appointed chairman of the Karnataka Backward Class Commission. By the time I joined, preliminary work was done. It was a long procedure and we examined all previous survey reports. The State government wanted the survey to cover the entire population.
The survey was conducted door-to-door, and there were 55 questions to be answered to determine backwardness, and caste was one of them. Till date, in Karnataka, there is no official caste list prepared. To include castes that might have been missed out, we invited people to make a representation, and got many representations. We have not included a single caste on our own.
Why is caste one of the factors for the survey ?
We are living in the 21st century and one might wonder why caste is being included. The Supreme Court has clearly said that any survey or census should not be based solely on caste. In many of its judgments, the apex court has said that caste should be one of the factors to ascertain backwardness. Of the 55 questions in our survey, one question was related to caste and the rest were on jobs, sanitation, place of residence, type of house, landholding etc. Caste is a reality in India and nobody can deny it. Though the Constitution says India should be a casteless society, we haven’t reached there yet.
Did you see backwardness among forward castes in your survey, and what is the percentage?
Yes, but I cannot disclose. There are poor people in all castes. This survey has touched entire sections of Karnataka, including forward and backward class people.
The survey was completed in 2015, will it not be outdated now?
It will stand even now. In one judgment, the Supreme Court said the report has to be considered within ten years. It is relevant even now.
Why do we need such surveys to be conducted in India or Karnataka?
This kind of census was conducted from 1872 to 1931, where details of caste were included. After 1931, the census did not have a caste aspect, and we don’t know the reason why it was discontinued. We need such surveys. If it had continued even after 1931, we might not need to conduct this kind of survey now. The goal of the Constitution, including the preamble, gives preference for social, economic and political justice. Article 14 says there is equality before law and this kind of survey is needed till equality is attained in society.
Why is caste census required?
Caste factor makes all the difference. Castes might have become an occupation and vice-versa. We can ascertain backwardness based on occupation, and in order to achieve social justice, this type of survey is required by both state and central governments. The government set up the commission in Karnataka as it is committed to social justice. Bihar spent Rs 500 crore on it, since it’s a big state. Even the government of India is going to take up the census in the near future, including the caste column. If it does, it will help all states. There is no need for states to go ahead with their own surveys.
When did you try to submit the caste census report?
We could not submit it directly to the government as suddenly there was an order to leave the commission. We handed over the report to the member secretary, an IAS officer, and asked him to submit it to the government in 2019.
Everything is done, people are keen to know about it, but why has the government not released the caste census in public domain?
The government has to accept the report and cannot reject it. If it rejects, it should give cogent reasons. We have done the duty entrusted to us, it is up to the government to take action. But I am happy the government assured me it would publish the report and implement it.
Is it true you approached HD Kumaraswamy to submit the report when he was CM?
We made an attempt but could not get an appointment officially. Once when I met him, we discussed the features of the report for which he (Kumaraswamy) said he would call me again after discussing it with the officials concerned. But I did not receive any call from him.
There was also talk of the report going missing....
It surprised me. I went to the commission and met then chairman K Jayaprakash Hegde and inquired with him, for which he clarified it was not missing.
What percentage of the total population is covered in the caste census?
In rural areas, 98-99 per cent of the population is covered, whereas in urban areas, around 87 per cent is covered.
Can it be taken as empirical data to classify quota?
Yes. We prepared 55 questions to enable us to ascertain the backwardness, social condition and social backwardness of people. Our Constitution provides specifically to identify persons who are socially and educationally backward. Details were collected to give welfare programmes.
What do you say about leakage of the report?
I deny it, there was no leakage of the report.
How accurate is the socio-economic information gathered?
During the survey, when we visited a house, we got answers to 55 questions. We took the signature of the person who provided the information. They can also cross-check the details entered by enumerators, who will also sign it. To ensure that information is entered properly, a supervisor also looks at it and puts his signature.
What is the percentage of unlettered people in the state?
In Karnataka, it was around 24 per cent 10 years ago, which is a very high number.
Are they scattered in different places?
They are scattered in different areas. Many people in villages have not even seen schools. It has improved now, but the fact remains that even now there are illiterate people who don’t know how to read and write.
Why did it take so many years to complete the survey and submit it to the government?
We collected all the information in just 40 days, with 1.22 lakh enumerators and supervisors. Each enumerator was assigned about 120 houses. But it was a huge task to compile and analyse the data. The analysis was entrusted to Bharat Electronics Ltd and they did it using software. Also, after data collection and preparation of the report, we approached the Indian Institute of Management to give its opinion on the genuineness of the survey and figures available.
There is a lot of criticism, especially from dominant communities, that the survey is unscientific and done in a hurry. They have petitioned the CM that it will have long-term implications for their communities. What is your message to them?
First, we must know what is scientific and unscientific. How do you know it’s unscientific when the government has not published it? After publication, they should study the report and then offer their comments.
Wouldn’t it be ideal for the government to put it in public domain?
The report is an asset of the government. They have to discuss it in the cabinet and assembly and then publish it.
The report has become a subject of political debate. Does it bother you?
I can’t say it doesn’t bother me. All I can say is I will be very happy if it is implemented and its benefits reach the people.
What could be the reason for so much opposition to a report nobody has seen?
I don’t know. Even while conducting the survey, there were objections. It is because generally, people think that whenever such a commission is set up, it is only for the purpose of reservation. However, many people responded that their caste should be mentioned in the report. The caste survey is important because suppose a person, whose caste is not mentioned anywhere, goes to a tahsildar. How will the tahsildar know whether he belongs to a caste which comes under reservation, and whether to include his name in the reservation list? There are many castes in the state which are excluded from reservation.
Is economic backwardness linked to social backwardness?
Social backwardness automatically tells that one is economically backward. Even in the Constitution, the words are clearly used “who are socially and educationally backward”, not economically backward. Even the Supreme Court has said any reservation solely based on economic criteria is unconstitutional. It should go with social and educational backwardness.
Some people may hide their economic background to show they are socially backward.
We asked if they have bank accounts. The report details how many people have bank accounts and ration cards.
What about bank and digital payments?
There are so many even today who have no bank accounts. A person has a bank account when he has a definite income. When there is no money to deposit in the bank, what is the need to open a bank account? Even today, there are people in the country and state who don’t have a definite income.
A person who is from a backward class, but has a good foreign education, runs educational institutions and has good income, will still be included in backward class?
There are some norms. If a person is educationally backward, but has money and property, we call him backward. The SC has also said there must be political reservation. Till 2010, there was general reservation in political reservation. In the 2010 Krishnamurthy case, the SC made it very clear that the criteria for social and political backwardness are different. For that purpose, the Karnataka government appointed the Bhaktavatsala Commission in 2010.
The Constitution speaks of having a casteless society and the preamble also gives equality to all. But doesn’t such a census set a precedence for more? There is caste in politics, job, education... how long will it take to come out of it?
The Constitution is supreme. Everyone should first know it before implementing it. If the Constitution is implemented as of today, I don’t think we will reach a stage of equality. Some more things may be required, and the Constitution provides for it too. Any law in India should be within the frame of the Constitution, which is known for social justice and is also called a social document. It’s a living document, and is not rigid. As long as discrimination continues, caste will continue.
There are apprehensions that the report is unfounded and has not done justice to any person or community.
I don’t say I am perfect. We have made all efforts, without any discrimination or lapse in our functioning. We have done our best. My conscience tells me we have made sincere efforts to do the best for the job entrusted to us.