Cardinal George Alencherry, head of the Syro-Malabar Church, is a prominent face of the Christian community in India. He has the enormous task of navigating through a crisis within the Church while dealing with external challenges. He was quite forthcoming in his views on the internal dispute, political situation in the country and the state, and religious equations during an interaction.
Excerpts:
You are forced to celebrate Holy Mass during Passion Week in the chapel at St Thomas Mount, instead of St Mary’s Cathedral Basilica, which has remained closed ever since two groups of parishioners fought in the church on Christmas eve.
It’s a peculiar situation. A Major Archbishop is supposed to hold the mass in his Cathedral. But there we do not have a convenient atmosphere. So, we’ll have the Holy Mass in the chapel here at St Thomas Mount, which is also my residence. There’s also a plan to have a church in this compound. I’m not unhappy, but not very enthusiastic either about having to conduct mass here. Some are violating even Papal orders. But the Church is not going on the offensive as we prefer harmony.
Those visuals of the church violence were quite shocking…
Yes, it was shocking to all. Such things should not have happened. Some want to win at all costs — even at the expense of Christian values. Some vested interests in society are encouraging these dissidents to take a stand against the Church. They have financial support from outside. Some extremist elements from other communities could also be behind them.
WATCH:
The dispute is about the way holy mass is conducted. For an outsider, it may seem like an unwanted controversy because what is important is prayer. Is it necessary to be so belligerent about the way it is conducted?
It may seem so. That’s natural. But for those who have gone through the whole process for the last 40-50 years, the debates and all, where it was felt that the Church needs uniformity in the conduct of mass, the decision is important. Besides, it’s not a good thing to disobey the decision taken by all together. This situation was not created by the Church but by certain sections led by activist-minded priests.
There’s a talk that an attempt is being made to split the Church on the pretext of this dispute.
I also heard that. But people won’t support such a move. Those who want to split will not succeed.
Will there be an end to this?
We are in touch with Rome. There will be a solution.
Syro-Malabar Church has made lots of contributions to Kerala society. But now we get to hear statements from certain priests that do not suit priesthood… For example in the case of Ecologically Sensitive Zone, a bishop had even threatened bloodshed.
The Church has always been for the betterment of our society. People migrated to high ranges as per the directives of the government. It was indeed Christians who migrated first but now many communities are staying there. If priests talked aggressively, that is for the sake of everyone there; not just Christians.
There has been an increase in instances of man–animal conflicts in these areas…
We need forests and wild animals. No species must go extinct. But if the number of animals increases beyond a limit, then culling is a must. There is no doubt that wildlife protection cannot be at the expense of human beings.
You are saying this on the basis of the concept that human beings are at the centre of everything. Isn’t coexistence a better way?
Any theory should be about the protection of humans, animals, and nature. There should be a balance. Equity of creation is important. But, the welfare of human beings must be the centre of all policy decisions.
Metropolitan Archbishop of the Archdiocese of Thalassery Joseph Pamplany had said Christians would vote for BJP if it ensured Rs 300 per kg for rubber. Is that the official position of the Catholic Church?
How can it be? That’s his individual opinion. Priests have the freedom to air their views. But the Church has no commitment to any political party. Church has no politics, but people have. Officially, we will never advise our faithful to vote for BJP or any particular party. Bishop Pamplany was echoing the sentiments of farmers. It is for the faithful to take a call.
The BJP was quick to respond to that…
Isn’t it natural for a political party to try their luck if they see a space for them? Other parties too tried to exploit the situation.
Till recently, the Christian community had some disinclination towards BJP. But now one can sense that it is increasingly getting closer to BJP… Isn’t it so?
If you look around you will see that it is happening not just in the case of the Christian community alone. The Nair community too had a special consideration towards Congress earlier. But that affinity has come down steadily. A section switched its loyalties towards the Left because that was the only other option. Left parties also failed to meet their expectations in some instances. So, it is natural that people may look for other options. Now, people may be thinking of BJP as an option.
Don’t bishops and priests indirectly pass the message regarding political choices?
That message is passed not during election time. People may be observing how we respond and react to certain developments and political overtures. But we never tell people whom to vote for. Also, our people are very politically conscious. They don’t need anybody’s directives these days.
So you mean to say that the time when bishops used to dictate political choice is over?
Certainly. Even ordinary women have their own opinion now. Earlier, when people were not politically conscious, they needed to be guided. But all that has changed. Our society has entered adulthood. So, no bishop or priest tells the community whom to vote for anymore. But we may help them form their opinion.
As you said earlier, Christians are no longer a vote bank of Congress. What happened?
It happened because of their own doings (chuckles).... Because of their wrong policies. People started thinking why not vote for someone else?
Just as Christians had an affinity towards Congress, they had hatred towards the Left once. But there seems to be a change in that attitude too.
Yes. Communist parties too have changed a lot.
What changes?
Their ideological approaches have changed, especially in matters of faith.
Like?
Earlier they were against going to churches and temples. But now they encourage it (chuckles).
So you mean to say that Church changed its position because CPM changed its position?
It is not the Church that changed its position but the people. I have never ever interfered with anybody’s political choices. I am even against issuing pastoral letters during election time.
Does that mean no political party can take the Christian community for granted?
Exactly. We are nobody’s vote bank.
Is the Church happy with the community’s representation in the LDF government?
I don’t believe that we will get a say only if our community members are ministers. Whether to give representation to our community is a decision that’s left to those in power. Sometimes, a non-Christian minister may be more helpful to the community. Also, it is wrong to bargain based on the community’s numerical strength.
Do you think the Church had more say in governance during the UDF rule?
I won’t say that. This government too listens to us though every demand may not be met.
The BJP leadership is meeting Christian leaders these days…what is your response?
BJP leaders do come and meet me. But nobody has come to me officially. RSS leaders had come and met me. They called me ‘swami ji’ (chuckles). They said they want to continue the talks.
Christian institutions are being attacked in North India. Did you raise the matter?
During the first tenure of the BJP, many institutions were attacked. We brought up the matter and convinced BJP about the services the Christian community has done for Indian society. We even wrote a letter to the PM.
Are you satisfied with the BJP government?
It is impossible to be completely satisfied with any government. But at least we are happy on certain grounds. The same is the case with the state government. The governments have limitations. People get a state that they deserve. Then there is the talk of corruption. What I say is we are a corrupt society, that’s why we get corrupt ministers.
Do you think there is an increasing sense of mistrust between Christians and Muslims these days?
There have been some instances that have hurt the community’s sentiments.
For instance?
Primarily, instances of girls being lured. That has happened.
Do you mean to say love jihad exists?
I don’t want to use that term. It is a sensitive term that may provoke others. So I won’t use it. But it is a fact that girls are being lured and converted. It is not the policy of the Muslim community as a whole. But, some people in the community are doing it.
Samastha leader Jifri Muthukoya Thangal had said he was ready to hold discussions with the Christian community to clear the misconceptions. Is the Church ready?
We are ready for any discussion. But what is the point when they themselves are scared of these extremist elements in the community?
There is a perception that the prominence of the Christian community in Kerala society has come down while the Muslim community’s clout has increased…
Yes, I have heard of that. It may be because political parties look at vote banks. There is no Christian-Muslim divide as such. But a section in the Muslim community wants the uplift of their community only. They are the ones who create the problem. And, it is not just the Christians who are affected.
But the so-called ‘Islamophobia’ seems to be more among Christians than Hindus…
That is because Christians are the most affected ones. One reason is the luring of Christian girls for conversion. The second is the cornering of the benefits meant for minorities, which has been going on for a long time. Third is getting into ministries and working for the benefit of their community alone.
Do you think the migration of Christian youth to the West has a role in the community’s decreasing clout in Kerala?
I don’t think so. Our community has a history of migration. We believe in ‘lokame tharavaadu’ (chuckles).
Have you noticed the growth of Christian groups like CASA which are taking aggressive positions against the Muslim community?
I am not close to any extremist groups. I am against any move which scuttles communal harmony.
There is a move to form a ‘Christian party’. Do you think it will be a success?
God only knows (chuckles).
BJP is yet to capture Kerala. For that to happen, it needs the support of Christians here. Do you think that will happen?
Aren’t Muslims larger in number than us?
But BJP is not expecting the support of Muslims…
Why not? You should ask that question to them (chuckles).
BJP is very hopeful about the Christians… Do you think their optimism is justified?
I can’t answer such a political question. It depends on the people.
But do you think there is a possibility?
Yes, of course. When other political parties disappoint people, they may look at other options. We are not going to stop it. Let people decide.
So, the perception that the community is getting closer to BJP is correct?
Yes… Sometimes people come and share with me their disappointment that Congress has no leadership and there’s infighting. Similarly, they are unhappy with some policies of the Left government too. BJP won in north India and LDF won in Kerala because they did good to the people. People will get closer to any party which does good things for them.
So BJP has a chance in Kerala?
All three fronts have a chance.
But BJP has never been considered an equal to the other two fronts...
BJP is successful in getting people’s support.
You earlier said Congress is losing support and has leadership issues. But what if Shashi Tharoor leads the party?
I cannot give a political opinion. Tharoor talks like a good leader... is an effective communicator. But there is strong opposition to him within the Congress. So, those who watch the developments from outside will think that Congress will not do well even if Tharoor leads it. That is very disappointing. Congress will grow only if leaders give prominence to the party rather than to themselves. But, I don’t think that will happen anytime soon.
How do you assess PM Narendra Modi?
He is a good leader. He makes an effort to be one and is successful at it. He did not go for confrontation with anyone. He has been effective in raising India’s image internationally. When there’s a sense of security among the people, other faults tend to be ignored. He is very receptive and open. That’s leadership. Also, there are many things common between Hinduism and Christianity. The concept of harmony in Hinduism is very inspiring to me.
So you mean to say the Christian community does not feel insecure in BJP-ruled India?
Yes. Christians do not have any such insecurity now. But some say if BJP gets absolute power, minorities may become insecure. But I don’t know. We can’t predict all that.
What could be the reasons for some communities feeling insecure?
Muslims may fear that if Hindus get absolute power they will drive them away. Their fear is probably based on what’s happening in Muslim countries, where other communities are suppressed.
BJP claims that terrorist attacks or communal riots have come down during its tenure.
Yes, that is correct and that is a good thing. We don’t get to hear any such thing these days. There may be some human rights issues. But then handling terrorists is not an easy task.
The current Pope has a very progressive outlook. Is Kerala Church supportive?
The Kerala Church supports everything that the Pope says. But we don’t agree with the wrong interpretation of his words. It is wrong to say Pope approved same-sex marriages. He may not condemn them as he gives value to personal freedom but he will not sanction same-sex marriages. The German Church had demanded the same but he said no.
Will the Pope be visiting India soon?
Both PM Narendra Modi and the Pope want this visit to happen. It was supposed to happen next year. But because of his current health condition, we can’t say anything certain. Once he recovers, he will come to India, I hope.
Many nuns, including Sr Jesme and Sr Lucy Kalappurakkal, had raised many issues regarding the Church. Aren’t their issues genuine? Don’t they need to be addressed?
The Church did address the genuine issues raised by them. But all issues that they raise are not genuine. For example, if they want to dress up like other women, why did they become nuns?
An Easter message for our readers?
Jesus did not judge anyone; even those who tortured him. The same is our policy. Peace and harmony is the message of Easter. Always remember that we don’t need to worry about anything if our conscience is clear.