A spiritual leader who treads the path of Sree Narayana Guru, Swami Satchidananda has always held distinct views on social developments in the state. Head of the Sivagiri Mutt and president of the Sree Narayana Dharma Sangham Trust, he has been part of Sivagiri for more than four decades. Swami Satchidananda speaks to TNIE on his decision to stay away from the consecration ceremony in Ayodhya, why he believes casteism is still deep-rooted in the state, claims of Kerala being a politically enlightened state, caste census and reservation, political attempts to brand Guru and why he believes women should be allowed into the Sabarimala temple.
Excerpts
It has been three years since you took over as the Sivagiri Mutt chief. What has been the transformation you could bring into the Mutt that had once split into two fractions after 1995 controversies, including police action?
I believe the Mutt should function based on the vision and principles of Sree Narayana Guru. The controversies are a thing of the past. At the time, there were two different groups. The faction that lost the election was not ready to hand over power to the winning faction.
The police action at Sivagiri was a shock to the conscience of Kerala. Do you believe there was a conspiracy behind it?
The Swamiji who was in power was not ready to vacate the position, despite the election result and court order. He wanted to retain power. He consciously tried to sway the people in his favour. The masses believed him. Only later did they realise their mistake.
There were allegations that Swami Saswathikananda indulged in acts that paved the way for external intervention…
Swami was sharp and intelligent. He had close contacts with all political parties, and could influence them in his favour. It was his selfishness that led him to mislead one and all. That, eventually, paved the way for police action. Had the police not entered Sivagiri at that time, more unfortunate incidents may have occurred.
Why did you stay away from the Ayodhya Ram temple consecration ceremony?
Sivagiri Mutt functions on Guru’s teachings. In Bharat, there are crores of people who believe in Ram. For them, it might have been a significant moment…. It’s [construction of temple] based on a court order. Sivagiri Mutt prefers a neutral stance. Some seers did go to Ayodhya in their individual capacity.
Did you stay away as you felt it was a BJP-sponsored programme? Now there are demands that Kashi and Mathura also should be given back to Hindus…
Sivagiri does not indulge in politics. We view all parties equally. I don’t want to comment on this.
How can a spiritual entity like the Sivagiri Mutt remain silent on such issues?
We have been upholding Guru’s ideals. There’s no need for us to intervene. The Malabar revolt occurred during Guru’s time. He didn’t intervene. Sivagiri will not intervene in anything related to terrorist activities, religion-based tensions or attempts to consolidate power. My opinion will be out of place.
Won’t ‘Sreenarayaneeyar’ take your opinion seriously?
The SNDP general secretary exhorted ‘Sreenarayaneeyar’ to light lamps (at Hindu homes during consecration). In his perspective, he was right. There were people who criticised as well. The Mutt doesn’t take any side.
There’s criticism that, in today’s India, religion is being politicised…
From time immemorial, religion and politics have been complementary to each other. In India, we have different sects of people living together. I believe all of them should get equal justice.
What’s your opinion on the two prevailing perceptions on Guru: One says he belonged to the Sanatana tradition, while the other insists he was a proponent of transcendental spirituality?
That depends on how one defines Sanatana Dharma. There’s an impression that Sanatana Dharma means Chaturvarnya (caste system). That’s incorrect. Guru himself had expounded on Sanatana Dharma in 1928. ‘One Caste, One God, One Religion for mankind’... that is Sanatana Dharma.
There are allegations about attempts to restrict Guru to just one religion...
Guru is the one who presented a vision of confluence of all religions to the world. He followed Advaita Vedanta. For him, Advaita was not just a philosophy, but a way of life. While Sri Sankara presented Advaita on an ideological realm, Guru made it into a way of life – based on which all humans are one and the same.
Many of Guru’s disciples left Hindu religion. Was Guru a Hindu seer?
Who is a Hindu? Guru had all kinds of people as his disciples – from all religions, believers as well as atheists.
Has the Sangh Parivar tried to appropriate Guru?
Whenever the Sangh Parivar tried to appropriate Guru, the communists claimed that Guru was a great communist. A senior communist leader said if Guru had been alive, he would have co-opted him to the [party] politburo. The Congress people think that Guru is theirs. The PDP’s posters, too, had Guru’s picture. Guru is much sought-after for all political parties.
Guru once said that he had become a seer because of British rule. Did that mean that if he belonged to the Hindu tradition, he would not have been able to opt for ‘sanyasa’?
He made that remark to point at the caste system that existed in the country. He said even during the time of Sri Rama, the Shudras could not become seers, and it was the Britishers who provided the opportunity for everyone to become seers. Guru was someone who could go beyond the caste system and Chaturvarnya.
Discussions on Sanatana Dharma and Rama Rajya are now very much part of societal debate. Even the PM declared that Ram Rajya was evolving. What is the Sivagiri Mutt’s stance?
I doubt whether the caste system, or Chaturvarnya, holds as much relevance, as it once did. Times have changed. Narendra Modi is a prime example that an OBC leader can be in power for long.
Hardly two years ago, a casteist slur was cast on the current chief minister of Kerala…
That was an isolated incident. We cannot term it as society’s collective opinion. Casteism does exist in Kerala even today.
It’s true that an OBC person became the PM. But can someone from a backward community become a priest at Sabarimala?
I recently made a statement about this in the presence of the CM. When the government appoints priests in major temples, they give advertisements that applicants should belong to the Brahmin community. This is against the principle of a democratic government. The government should give equal opportunities to people from all sections.
Do you believe this will happen soon?
Yes. The decision by the Pinarayi government to appoint people from backward communities as priests is a significant step in this direction.
However, there are reports about some priests from backward castes being boycotted…
Casteism is still rigid. This must change. A culture that does not exist in any other country seems to have crept into Bharat and Kerala. Casteism was not limited to any community. It exists in all communities, including among the Brahmins.
There is criticism that priests from SC/ST communities are not inducted even in temples under the control of the Ezhava community. In the Sivagiri Mutt, is there any priest who belongs to the SC-ST community?
Yes, there are.
You had raised concerns of casteism when [the late actor] Kalabhavan Mani could not bag a national film award...
I had visited and consoled him at that time. Casteism does exist in the film field. Any noble or good character would invariably be from the upper caste echelons. Such will be the storyline. Characters from lower castes would hardly be portrayed. ‘Manichithrathazhu’ was based on the killing that happened in the Alummootil family, which is from the Ezhava community. However, when the film was made, the characters were depicted as upper-caste folks. Directors are ready to make movies that value the contribution of people like Guru, but, when zooming in on the photographs of great people, Guru goes missing!
So, are you saying there was a deliberate attempt to change the storyline [in the case of Manichithrathazhu]?
Casteism is strongly ingrained in the mass psyche. There is a prevailing, blind belief that a movie would succeed only if the storyline is modified accordingly.
Was it because of this bias that Kalabhavan Mani did not bag the national award?
I am not the person you should ask. Actors like Kalabhavan Mani and Thilakan were rejected due to casteism. Thilakan was a great actor. He was eligible for a national award. Mani, too, deserved it.
There are allegations that a part of the film industry is being controlled by Nairs of Thiruvananthapuram…
(Chuckles). Yes, I, too, have heard that.
When a film was made based on the life of Arattupuzha Velayudha Panicker, you said that his name was yet to be printed in history books. Do you believe the film could not garner the attention it deserved?
‘Pazhassi Raja’ was a blockbuster. Velayudha Panicker was a great hero, when compared to Pazhassi Raja. In what way, is Panicker’s status lower than that of Pazhassi Raja? But in Kerala’s mass psyche, Panicker will always be seen as one from a lower caste.
Is this because history did not document people like him?
Could be. Though the film ‘Yuga Purushan’, based on Guru’s life, was good, it could not succeed commercially.
A recent movie about poet Kumaran Asan, too, is struggling to find theatres…
Theatre owners are not ready to run the film. We offered help to its director. However, the theatre owners are not ready to cooperate.
There’s an allegation that the Sivagiri Mutt has, of late, been exhibiting right-wing political leanings…
The Mutt has no such political leanings. Ever since he became the chief minister, Pinarayi has been inaugurating the Sivagiri pilgrimage. National leaders like Narendra Modi, Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi have also come here.
Even after a century of his passing away, some people portray Sree Narayana Guru as the spiritual leader of the Ezhava community alone…
That’s due to certain wide, deep-rooted casteist ideals prevalent in Kerala society. Viewed with a jaundice ed eye, he becomes an Ezhava Guru. Casteism is inherent in Kerala society.
Do organisations like the NSS and SNDP contribute to keeping it that way?
Being a spiritual leader, it won’t be right for me to criticise community organisations.
Have you ever invited NSS general secretary G Sukumaran Nair to Sivagiri?
Yes. I invited him when he took over as the general secretary [of NSS]. But, he never turned up, saying he will attend only programmes organised by Nairs. When I pointed out that people like Mannathu Padmanabhan, Kidangoor (Gopalakrishna Pillai) and P K Narayana Panicker had come here, he said, “They may have come. That’s up to them. I am who I am. I won’t come.”
Do you feel the current NSS secretary tends to project the ‘Nair’ casteist identity through his cultural and political posturing…. especially his statement on [Ramesh] Chennithala…
He has publicly stated that he is the’ Pope of Nairs (smiles)’. It’s not right for me to be critical of another organisation. However, his statement on bestowing a key position to Chennithala, I believe, has only harmed the latter.
Though brilliant and more talented than Kumaran Asan, Guru has not been recognised as a poet. Why weren’t his literary contributions never given due consideration?
Recently, when poet Prabha Varma spoke at the Sivagiri pilgrimage, he said Guru was the poet who made Asan what he was. In fact, Asan is no one in front of Guru. A scholar in Malayalam, Tamil and Sanskrit… there’s no equivalent for his works. Limiting him to the role of a social reformer and revolutionary, his literary contributions were not recognised.
There have been demands for Guru’s ‘Daiva Dasakam’ to be made the official song of Kerala…
Such a demand has been around for long. I, too, have raised this demand before several chief ministers – K Karunakaran, A K Antony, E K Nayanar, Oommen Chandy, V S Achuthanandan, Pinarayi [Vijayan]. None of them said they wouldn’t do it. But none of them did it either (smiles).
Were they worried how other communities would take it?
That could be one of the reasons.
There are demands for a caste census. But the state government is not keen on the same….
Conducting a caste census would reveal the true state of communities in Kerala. Some people don’t want such data to be made public. Was it not the Left government that implemented economic reservation in the state? The very basis of economic reservation is about not implementing a caste census.
There’s an argument that withdrawing reservation would put an end to caste differences…
Reservation is like providing a walking stick to a handicapped person. It’s only due to reservation that a few from lower castes could make it as, at least, class-four employees. Abolishing caste reservation in favour of economic reservation could have a negative impact, with lower castes not being able to make it even to the grade of class-four employees.
The 10 % reservation to economically weaker sections is over and above the existing reservation. Will this affect the existing system?
It does have its consequences. Even today, people from backward communities are unable to compete intellectually with the so-called upper castes, on equal terms. Economic reservation would end up helping only the forward communities. It cannot bring in social justice and equality.
You reject the caste system. Yet, you support reservation. Isn’t that hypocritical?
Reservation is aimed at uplifting a section of society. It cannot be termed part of casteism. Can we conduct surgery without spilling blood?
In Kerala, there have often been attempts by minority communities and religions to bargain with political parties. Right-wing forces feel that the majority community often fails to do the same…
The majority communities would not be able to do that. Christians and Muslims have their specific religious texts and founders. As far as Hinduism is concerned, there is no such ritualistic insistence. Hence, they will never be an organised force. Hindus consist of different communities like the Brahmins, Nairs or Ezhavas, with each community acting like a separate religion.
If the Hindu religion becomes such a force, would SC/ST and other backward communities find space?
They should. Isn’t Narendra Modi ruling the country? Ram Nath Kovind and Droupadi Murmu, too, hail from backward communities.
Just because the PM and President hail from backward communities, will such equality get reflected in mainstream society?
The Chaturvarna system that once prevailed in India no longer holds true in the present day. People have become more aware. In North India, Mayawati could become CM a couple of times. Many claim people of Kerala are a politically enlightened lot. But could someone like K R Gowri Amma become the CM here? How many years more will we have to wait for a chief minister from SC/ST communities? What kind of political enlightenment are we talking about? K R Narayanan had to contest from a reserved seat, Ottappalam.
So, claims of a progressive Kerala are false?
Yes, these are just false claims
There are allegations of ‘Aryanisation’ of backward communities here. Did not Guru himself promote Shiva and Parvathy, instead of Madan and Marutha?
Guru was trying to create a cultured society. Once upon a time, backward communities used to worship gods like Chathan, Chamundi, Madan and Marutha. There were primitive pujas and rituals, where the gods were offered liquor and meat. To lead the people out of it, and to make them more cultured, Guru introduced them to ‘satvik’ gods. It was to uplift them, not part of ‘Aryanisation’. Guru had specifically emphasised on the need to set society free from worship of gods of ‘tamo-guna’ and uplift them to a ‘satvik’ level. Shiva, Subrahmanian and Ganapathy are of ‘satvik’ nature.
So, even gods seem to have a caste system…
Yes, of course. It’s there even among the gods (laughs).
What’s the current equation between Sivagiri Mutt and SNDP?
While the Mutt focuses on spirituality, SNDP is into organisational activities. The Mutt is of the view that we should cooperate in all areas, wherever possible.
Does the Mutt exercise any kind of control over SNDP? Are there attempts by SNDP to take control of the Mutt?
No, nothing of the sort.
Is there reluctance on the part of youngsters to join the Mutt?
Yes. But such is the case with Ramakrishna Mission, Chinmaya Mission and Christian churches, too. Unlike in the past, there are very few members within a family.
Attempts are being made to project Hinduism as a single entity with a uniform nature.
Spiritual leaders like Swami Vivekananda had tried to transform the Hindu religion into a more refined religious system. But the current efforts have a different motive. Those who indulge in such activities believe that it’s essential for the sovereignty of the nation.
During the last elections, women’s entry into Sabarimala was widely discussed in the state. What’s your take on this?
I believe women should be allowed into Sabarimala. Times have changed. In view of the heavy rush, women should be allowed entry at pre-specified times.
TNIE team: Kiran Prakash, Anil S, M P Prashanth, K S Sreejith, B P Deepu (photos), Pranav V P (video)