A writer, singer, painter and author, Dr M K Muneer is a rare combination in Kerala politics. Until recently, the son of the late Muslim League stalwart C H Muhammad Koya was seen as the soft face of the party. But internal compulsions in the IUML have apparently forced him to take some seemingly “regressive” positions; be it on gender neutrality or liberalism. For the past few years, Muneer has been marshalling all his energy to target the CPM for obvious reasons. Excerpts from his interaction with TNIE
There is a general perception that the Muslim League leaders failed to take a strong stand on the Ayodhya Ram Temple and Gyanvapi issues. What exactly is the League’s position on these?
All secular parties in India had unitedly condemned the Babri Masjid demolition. But later, when the issue came to the Supreme Court, all Muslim groups decided to abide by its judgment. The League respects the emotions of the Hindu devotees. The Muslim League played a major role in framing the Places of Worship Act, which prohibits encroachment on any kind of religious institutions that existed as of August 15, 1945. [Prime Minister] Narendra Modi politicised [Ayodhya Ram temple] ‘prana pratishta’ for gains in the Lok Sabha elections. [Mahatma] Gandhi’s ‘Ram’ was entirely different from the Sangh Parivar’s ‘Ram’. That’s why the League decided not to attend the ‘prana pratishta’.
But [IUML state president] Sadiq Ali Thangal’s statement about Lord Ram being a symbol of unity created quite a stir…
What was spread on social media was an edited version. What Sadiq Ali Thangal meant was that [Lord] Ram’s life is a message to everyone. Ram should not be used as a tool to create rift between religions.
But, didn’t that statement weaken the League’s past posturing?
Thangal’s message is that we do not intend to hurt the sentiments of people who believe in [Lord] Ram. However, there are some groups within Muslim community that want to take an aggressive stand. We will not let these groups hijack the League’s official stand.
While you take this stand, the other side (Sangh Parivar) seems to be in an aggressive mode. How will the youth in the community respond to this?
Our party cannot act based on emotions. Muhammad Ali Shihab Ali Thangal’s stand was also the same. There was such emotionality at his time, too. That’s how new organisations were formed. Abdul Nasser Madhani formed the PDP, claiming that Shihab Ali Thangal had not been brave enough. But, eventually, what happened to Madhani? If the League joins the ruckus with them, how will it be different from the PDP? The League is a responsible party. We had been involved in the legal fight for Babri Masjid. Unfortunately, the judgment was against us. We cannot oppose the Supreme Court decision.
But there are many League followers who believe the party should have taken an aggressive stand…
Some are trying to take advantage of the situation to corner the League. We understand the emotions of the party supporters. But all of us have to understand that the League has a more important vision. Our aim is to ensure that the Muslim community has proper representation in administration, jobs and nation-building. The League can approach a sensitive issue only with a certain amount of responsibility.
Is that a limitation?
No. Only the Muslim League can do that.
Meanwhile, the CPM has been able to project an image that it is the only party that truly represents the emotions of the minority…
What are they doing? The Babri Masjid was first attacked during the V P Singh government, which was supported by the Left. What did the Left do then? Whenever there is a problem for the minorities, the Left often comes out with emotional rhetoric. In the past, EMS [Nampoothiripad] had even supported Saddam Hussein. In the recent Ayodhya case, the CPM announced that it would not attend the ‘prana pratishta’ event. Then, before the Congress could take a stand, it asked what the Congress’ decision was. An organisation like the Congress can take such decisions only after a lot of consultations. The Marxist party makes emotional statements only for votes.
But the CPM was able to gain the confidence of minorities in issues such as the CAA, Palestine conflict, and even in the Ram temple standoff. It is not as simple as you see...
Now, take the subject of CAA. When we protested against it, cases were filed only against our party workers. The chief minister [Pinarayi Vijayan] should have declared that all parties in Kerala would fight together against the central government. At their rally on the Palestine issue, they were not talking about the deaths in Gaza. Rather, their topic was about the Congress stand on the issue. The CPM uses such emotional issues for political purposes.
So, are you alleging that Pinarayi Vijayan has some kind of understanding with the RSS?
It’s a common doubt. Pinarayi should answer that.
When the Congress takes time to take decisions on matters affecting the minorities, the CPM takes clear-cut decisions quickly…. That could be a reason why there is a tendency among Muslims, especially youngsters, to choose CPM over the Congress…
Let me ask a question: Which party directly competes with the BJP at the national level? The Marxist party cannot replace the Congress in any way. They have become irrelevant in Bengal and Tripura. All their leaders have gone to the BJP. Even their party offices are used by the BJP now. The Congress has taken strong stands many times. For example, only we had the guts to ask for a caste census before the election.
Rahul Gandhi is accused of trying to impress the Hindu community by wearing Hanuman costumes, and visiting a temple on the day of Ram temple ‘prana pratishta’… Does the League back the Congress’s perceived soft-Hindutva stand?
The Congress should explain its actions…. What I’m saying is that only Rahul Gandhi can address the hate politics of the BJP in Manipur, and the country as a whole. The Congress itself has a history of different ideologies. [Jawaharlal] Nehru was a socialist. I believe that the Gandhi family has a secular ideology. Even other leaders, including Jairam Ramesh, share the same thoughts.
But top leaders are leaving the Congress day by day…
It is the internal issue of a political party.
Has the League had any discussions regarding joining the LDF?
The Muslim League has never had any discussions regarding changing the Front (UDF).
Are there leaders within your party who would like it to align with the LDF?
No, our party has only one stand.
But the League’s stand is often viewed as one of compromise. When the LDF decided to organise a protest against the central government in Delhi, P K Kunhalikutty said it shouldn’t have been done during the election time. That implies the League would have joined the protest had it not been the election time…
No... What Kunhalikutty Sahib meant was that the LDF was using the protest as a political gimmick at the time of elections. When the government called the Muslim organisations for a discussion on the Waqf Board issue, they intentionally avoided us. When we questioned that, Pinarary said the Muslim League did not have a monopoly over the Muslim community. The same person called us to join them in the Palestine rally. We cannot act as per the LDF’s interest.
Is there a trust deficit between the Congress and the League? The Congress was waiting for the League’s decision regarding the LDF’s Palestine rally. The League was waiting for the Congress’ decision on the ‘prana pratishta’ matter. These indicate a trust deficit…
The Muslim League will not interfere in Congress’ internal affairs, but we, indeed, shared our idea of a secularist nation with them. The Congress later decided not to attend the ‘prana pratishta’. On the Palestine issue, we didn’t even understand why the LDF invited us to their rally.
But some of your leaders expressed happiness at being invited…
Nothing like that… we made the decision together.
Apparently, CPM leaders are showing much affection to the League these days…
They are trying to finish an organisation off in two ways. By embracing or by strangulating.
You have ideological differences with Jamaat-e-Islami and the Welfare Party. However, has the League bridged the gap with them in recent times?
The League’s ideology is entirely different from Jamaat-e-Islami’s.
But the Jamaat recently changed its stand. Was that because of the League’s growing opposition?
No, it’s part of practical politics. If Jamaat-e-Islami is changing course, it should reflect in all their actions. The core ideology is still there in their books.
Ten years ago, you were the progressive face of the party. But now, you, too, seem to harbour extreme views. What is the reason behind this change?
What do you mean by my ‘extreme views’?
Your comments on gender-neutral uniforms or homosexuality are contrary to your transgender policy...
I am always with the transgender community. I am the one who implemented the transgender policy. But when we come to homosexuality, the situation is entirely different. There are many social issues caused by homosexual people. Homosexuality is one of the major reasons for the increase in the number of AIDS cases and paedophilic crimes. There is a new group that demands homosexual people should be allowed to have sexual relations without age restrictions and consent. Pride parades are now organised in Kerala also. Corporate companies are sponsoring such pride marches.
Do you really believe that homosexuality is a real problem in Kerala society?
Then, why didn’t the Supreme Court legalise gay marriages?
What about gender-neutral uniforms? It was a harmless issue. Why did you oppose that?
When I talked against gender-neutral uniforms, I was on the women’s side. In a patriarchal society, we never ask men to wear a specific type of clothing.
It is only the women who need to follow certain rules. The state government was asking girl students to wear pants, without their consent. Why are we always discussing the dressing of women? Why no one is asking about Pinarayi’s dressing style?
You say you do not support patriarchy. Why some Muslim organisations don’t even allow girl children to receive prizes on stage?
As an MLA, I have distributed prizes to both girls and boys in my constituency. I can only tell you about my stand.
Do you believe statements from some leaders of Samastha and the League have intensified the internal conflict?
We have settled all those issues. What is happening is, if one member of the party makes any controversial statement, the party is forced to take its responsibility.
Does the League fear that the CPM would hijack Samastha?
Pinarayi called Samastha leaders to his official residence, not to AKG Centre. A chief minister can have meetings with the religious organisations in his state.
The CPM is now able to attract minorities to its fold without the help of the League...
They tried it during the time of EMS as well. EMS was one who made the organisation called ‘Progressive League’ with the help of Imbichi Koya to oppose the League. But what happened is, in 1957, the Muslim League joined the CPM and EMS dissolved the Progressive League. So the CPM is following a use-and-throw style with Muslim organisations.
Does the League smell of failure in the Ponnani seat this election?
Never.
Does the League realise that the CPM is eating into its vote share?
Everything will become clear in the next election. The CPM is now on the backfoot.
Has the UDF succeeded in taking advantage of the current political situation?
There is a section of neutral voters in the state. They decide who will come into power.
There were many allegations against the state government in 2021, including the gold smuggling. But still, the UDF couldn’t corner the government…
We raised all the issues at that time. But we didn’t have solid evidence to prove the allegations. Without solid evidence, the public won’t believe in allegations.
People seem to be looking for strong leaders these days. The UDF lacks a strong captain…
I don’t think so. The public’s vote is not individual-oriented. They vote for the party.
Does the Congress have a leadership vacuum in Kerala?
The Congress should make corrections before the elections. They can’t always take things for granted. If anybody bores a hole, the whole ship will sink. So, the Congress should rectify its internal issues.
Now, is it the duty of the League to not let the ship sink?
Yes. But we cannot interfere in the Congress’s internal affairs.
Do M T Vasudevan Nair’s comments [on perils of Stalinism] at the Kerala Literature Festival have any political impact?
Of course. Actually, MT is the one who opened up about the issue. The LDF was trying to counter the situation by saying MT was quoting from an old article. If MT didn’t intend to say what he did, why did he quote Chekhov and Maxim Gorky in the presence of Pinarayi?
Will it reflect politically?
Yes. The neutral voters will be influenced. There are a huge number of people who read MT, and they will definitely be influenced by his speech. Although not everyone has reacted, the whole cultural world’s objection to the government is obvious.
You have been defending the Congress so much, but the Congress is not ready to give a third Lok Sabha seat to the League…
We are the second major party in the UDF. We deserve a third seat.
Notably, Congress leader A K Antony had said that minorities in Kerala were asking for more than their rightful share…
Whom did Antony refer to? Some people might say it was about us… But it was not about us (laughs).
You recently made some remarks on participating in functions and festivals of other religions. What are your views?
We live in a polyphonic society. Islam has taught us how to live in a pluralist society. Faith should be strong. If my faith can get corrupted by merely eating a Christmas cake, it means my faith is not strong enough.
Talking of faith, over the past few years, there has been a rise in Islamic fundamentalism...
Fundamentalism is there in every religion. It is there in VHP, Bajrang Dal, and even in Christianity.
What are the election prospects of the INDIA bloc?
We cannot predict election results. If we analyse the results in the five recent state elections, we can say that there is only a slight difference in the votes polled between the Congress and the BJP.
All the polls are saying that Modi and Pinarayi are the strongest leaders at the national and state levels, respectively...
Polls and surveys that show Modi will come to power are propaganda sponsored by the BJP. They are trying to influence the voters. That’s what is happening in Kerala as well.
What are the UDF’s prospects in Kerala?
The UDF will win 19 seats.
Which faction is leading in Muslim League – the Kunhalikutty faction or the anti-Kunhalikutty faction?
We all are Sadiq Ali Thangal faction (smiles).
In our entire conversation, you mostly spoke against only the CPM...
(Laughs) I have written a book against the BJP.
TNIE team: Anil S, M P Prashanth, Arun M, Lakshmi Athira , E Gokul(photos), Pranav V P (video)