Anu Kuruvilla
Professor William Schabas, a UK-based specialist in international human rights and criminal laws, will be soon joining Cusat in Kochi as a visiting professor at the N R Madhava Menon Interdisciplinary Centre For Research Ethics and Protocols.
Prof. William has published a large body of scholarly work in areas of racial discrimination, genocide, capital punishment, the International Criminal Court, the European Convention on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.
Prof. William spoke to TNIE on the sidelines of the recent Erudite Scholar-in-Residence Programme, organised by Cusat in collaboration with the Kerala State Higher Education Council.
Excerpts:
The second Trump government has come up with some strong anti-migrant policies. India being a country that has a huge expat population and youth preferring to go abroad for studies and jobs, how do you think Trump’s policies will affect their prospects?
His policies regarding migrants are very xenophobic. He is also attempting to whip up hysteria in the US against people who don’t hail from the white European countries. All his racist rants and policies against migrants will, unfortunately, find echoes in other countries where populist demagogues have similar aspirations as Trump.
We also have a similar phenomenon in the UK, where the governments in the past, particularly the previous Conservative government, have been very aggressive in their hostility to migrants from different parts of the world like those from Asia, including India and the African nations. I teach many students in the UK. They are wonderful students. And I want them to keep coming. However, the government policies act as a deterrent.
Hindering people from moving to these countries to build their lives is a violation of human rights.
Why do you feel it is wrong to place curbs on migration?
It should be noted that these wealthy states, especially those in Europe, had enriched themselves for centuries by exploiting the countries in Asia and Africa. And now to turn their backs on people from these countries is unlawful.
How do you view Trump’s statement on taking over and ‘owning’ Gaza?
He is not the person to decide that. What should happen in Gaza can only be decided by the people living there. Anything contrary would be a violation of international laws.
It is the US that has been backing the war in Gaza. The real objective behind Israel’s war on Hamas is to make Gaza unlivable. I strongly believe that a genocide is happening in Gaza.
Could you elaborate on the difference between ethnic cleansing and genocide in this context?
There is a difference, but no sharp line separating both. ‘Ethnic cleansing’ is not a word that we use legally. But it is understood to be the expulsion of people to another territory, often within a country.
However, genocide involves exterminating the people. This is what is happening in Gaza. Israel has destroyed a big part of the population in Gaza. They have done so by making the region unliveable.
You have been vocal about human rights violations across the globe. How does India fare?
Like in the rest of the world, there are some human rights concerns in India as well. Though India has been successful in many areas like taking measures to meet the needs of its population, in certain areas like discrimination against minorities, there is much concern.
For a country, which in the very early years of the UN, played a significant role in promoting human rights – not just drafting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights but also promoting policies within the UN General Assembly – it is today not playing any significant role in promoting international human rights as it did back in the 1940s. I hope this will change.
You are against death penalties. India still sees death penalties being handed out by the courts. What’s your take on this?
India should do away with the death penalty, and set an example for others, especially Asian countries, to follow.
The death penalty doesn’t serve any criminological purpose of deterring crime that can be shown to be superior to a lengthy term of imprisonment.