P J Joseph, even at 84, remains a steady presence in Kerala politics. A 10-time MLA from Thodupuzha and a former minister who held key portfolios including home, revenue, education, and PWD, Joseph is best known for pioneering the delinking of Pre-Degree courses from colleges — a reform that reshaped the state’s education system.
In an interview at his residence in Purapuzha, Thodupuzha, Joseph, calm yet candid, speaks about legacy, leadership, and the changing dynamics within the Kerala Congress, offering insights into the road ahead for both his party and the larger UDF alliance.
Excerpts
It’s been nearly 60 years since you began your political journey. Looking back, how do you view it?
I first became an MLA in 1970. My entry into the cabinet came in 1978, when A K Antony was the chief minister. I took over as the home minister after K M Mani resigned because of an election case. My tenure lasted only eight months, but I consider it a strong start. At the first meeting with top police officers, I gave a simple instruction: “We have no special policy. The rule of law must be maintained.” That principle was strictly followed. When I stepped down after Mani returned, I told the media: “During my tenure, I never asked the police to trap an innocent person or to protect a criminal. I could function effectively because the CM gave full support.”
What were the major reforms you could implement during that brief tenure?
One big issue back then was ‘nokkukooli’ — the practice of demanding wages for loading/unloading work not done. We banned it and enforced the same across the state. I was also in charge of the anti-corruption wing. We acted strictly wherever we had proof of corruption, even when there were recommendations from influential quarters to protect some people. We terminated the services of many against whom solid evidence existed.
How do you recall your tenure as revenue minister?
In 1980, I became the UDF convener. The next UDF government, under K Karunakaran, gave me the revenue and housing portfolios. As revenue minister, I was able to get central funds during major floods. In the housing sector, I focused on providing homes to economically weaker sections.
That was around the time Kerala Congress split from UDF, right?
Yes. In the 1984 parliamentary elections, both KC(M) and KC(J) contested separately. We won two seats — Muvattupuzha and Mukundapuram. But in the next election, Kerala Congress was given only one seat. We wanted Muvattupuzha but were denied. That led to our exit from UDF in 1989, and we joined LDF.
You were in LDF for two decades. What were the major highlights of that phase?
In 1996, when LDF came to power, I handled education, PWD, housing, and registration. The biggest policy decision was delinking Pre-Degree from colleges. At an all-India educational conference in Thiruvananthapuram, we found Kerala’s school education lagging. To improve standards, we decided to merge Pre-Degree with school education. Though there were protests, we implemented it successfully. There were around 1.02 lakh Pre-Degree seats back then. Today, there are over 3.5 lakh Plus-Two seats. Delinking ensured that schools became the launching pad for higher education and many new courses began. We also decentralised Plus-Two to the panchayat level.
You were also involved in the setting up of self-financing colleges…
Yes, we realised there were very few seats in engineering and medicine. Back then, only around 3,500 to 4,000 engineering seats existed. After extensive discussions, we introduced the self-financing model, which increased access significantly.
Recently, Alphons Kannanthanam claimed that he, along with you, surreptitiously facilitated the entry of private professional colleges in the state without taking Chief Minister E K Nayanar into confidence...
Kannanthanam exaggerated the events. It’s improper to speak in such a way about someone who is no longer with us. Still, do you think we would have taken such a major step without Nayanar’s knowledge? Private professional colleges were already functioning in states like Bengal. When I brought this up with Nayanar, he asked me to commission a study. We did that, and based on the report, we proceeded.
Your tenure in PWD saw the launch of Kerala State Transport Project...
Correct. We studied Kerala’s road infrastructure and found that 9,000 km needed urgent upgrading. We approached the World Bank and secured funding. This led to the launch of Kerala State Transport Project and the use of BMBC (Bituminous Macadam and Bituminous Concrete) roads at Rs 1 crore per kilometre. That was a game changer. We also planned a six-lane expressway from Kasaragod to Thiruvananthapuram, inspired by Malaysia’s North-South Expressway. Unfortunately, we couldn’t arrange the required funds. If implemented, such a road could drastically cut travel time and reduce traffic congestion in towns. I did a model study in Thodupuzha and implemented it locally. I believe such expressways can reduce our reliance on projects like K-Rail.
You’ve worked under several chief ministers – Antony, Nayanar, Karunakaran, and VS. How do you assess each of them?
Every chief minister had his own style. Antony and Nayanar supported me strongly. Early in my home minister stint under Antony, a top police officer defied cabinet instructions. I brought the issue to the cabinet and we removed him. Thereafter, the police force came under full ministerial control. Antony backed me fully. During Nayanar’s time, we decided to avail the World Bank loan to upgrade roads.
Can you elaborate on the World Bank loan?
In the final stage, we required the CM’s approval. At the time, several other states were receiving World Bank support to improve road infrastructure. We too needed it. I always acknowledge the support Nayanar gave for that.
Can you tell us about the experience of working with VS?
I handled the PWD portfolio in his cabinet. We had no issues in our interactions. But when it came to the width of the national highway, I felt his outlook wasn’t right.
You mean the decision to reduce the NH width to 30 metres?
Yes. He couldn’t fully grasp the proposal of spending Rs 1 crore per kilometre of road. But those roads would have lasted for a very long time. In my view, all roads in the state should be converted to BMBC.
Balakrishna Pillai resigned after the ‘Punjab model’ speech. Did Karunakaran later oppose Kerala Congress having four ministers?
I don’t think so. Pillai got carried away with that speech. I played a big role in bringing him back into the cabinet. But I won’t go into the reasons behind every split... it’s a long list.
It’s said you came into politics unexpectedly. You were planning to go abroad for higher studies...
After my MA, I was doing some social work. I read a lot. After reading ‘The Discovery of India’, I started reading about Gandhiji. I was inspired by his ‘Grama Swaraj’. I used to distribute tree saplings with better yields and would be invited to annual celebrations of libraries. I was given the Kerala Congress membership during that period. My father was a Kerala Congress member. I was later made a member of the party’s state committee. Then came the 1970 assembly elections.
Kerala Congress and CPM were both founded in 1964. While CPM has grown into the state’s ruling party, Kerala Congress has split into many factions. Why?
In 1977, we won 20 seats as a united party. Earlier, in 1965, we had 25 MLAs. But repeated internal feuds destroyed unity.
Were the splits ideological or personal?
Mostly small, petty issues... not ideological.
You had a long and complex relationship with K M Mani. How would you describe it?
Bittersweet. But in his final years, we stood united.
When K M Mani had to resign from the UDF ministry following the alleged bar bribery scam, it’s said he wanted you too to step down...
There was no personal demand from his side. And there were no formal discussions (regarding my resignation) within the party either. His resignation was temporary. Had I resigned, the party’s relationship with the front would also have ended.
What was the reason for you to go for Kerala Congress (M) after your merger, instead of choosing Kerala Congress?
KC(M) had the recognition of the Election Commission. Now, we are Kerala Congress. We have the recognition, we have the symbol.
After the demise of K M Mani, the P J Joseph faction couldn’t work together with his son, Jose K Mani. What was the reason?
Jose K Mani couldn’t accept the fact that the working chairman would automatically assume the position of chairman in the absence of the chairman (after the passing of K M Mani). He then convened a meeting though it wasn’t in line with the law.
What was the main point of contention with Jose?
We held several rounds of discussions where even former chairman C F Thomas agreed I should become the chairman. But he (Jose) stayed away from the discussions, convened a separate meeting, and declared himself the chairman.
What were the reasons behind KC(M) leaving UDF and joining LDF?
According to the agreement, the person we recommended was to become the Kottayam district panchayat president. But they didn’t allow it. Decisions approved by the UDF committee were not acted upon.
They contended there was no such agreement...
That isn’t true. Agreement means an understanding, most of the time, right? It isn’t always written down on a piece of paper. Then, in the Pala assembly bypoll (after K M Mani’s death), I just said we should nominate a candidate who has a chance of winning.
That was the beginning of the rift, wasn’t it?
I said the candidate (Jose Tom) suggested (by Jose) had little chance of winning.
You have worked with both UDF and LDF. In which front did your party get more acceptance?
As far as I’m concerned, I got acceptance in both fronts. There were no issues whatsoever in either front. We left LDF for the sake of the coming together of Kerala Congress. I said this at the time.
There are now talks about KC(M) returning to UDF fold...
We haven’t discussed the matter as yet. If such a situation arises, we wouldn’t oppose it.
Why?
That’s because our original view is that Kerala Congress should stand together.
If KC(M) returns to UDF, will it be a united Kerala Congress or two separate entities?
That’s impossible (to become a single entity) with one step.
What’s your view about the emergence of a third front in Kerala? Now we see Kerala Congress leaders joining NDA...
I don’t think any Kerala Congress leaders have joined NDA.
There are leaders like P C George...
He wasn’t part of us. He joined them very early. He joined NDA since no one else was taking him (chuckles).
Was there any offer for you from NDA at any point?
They always keep in touch.
Who approached you for discussions from their side?
No, it isn’t like that. They just send feelers.
Are they still continuing, sending feelers?
No. Not now.
Has the party ever considered their offer?
No. Never.
There’s a talk a majority of Christians in the state is slowly moving closer to BJP. Do you think that’s happening?
No, I don’t think so. That may be the case in some other states.
And in Kerala?
When the Waqf Bill was passed, there were many such discussions. However, that didn’t materialise the way they said. There was some confusion (among Christians) at the time. That’s true.
There’s a view the Congress party has no big Christian leader and it is said that was the reason Sunny Joseph was made the KPCC president. Your views...
I don’t think Sunny Joseph was made the KPCC president because he is a Christian. There were many factors.
The next assembly election is less than 10 months away. What are your expectations for UDF?
If UDF stays together, we will win. The parliament elections proved as much. It was a near clean sweep. There are important aspects such as selection of candidates.
Is UDF united now?
It can be united. Now, changes are happening back and forth (chuckles).
Do you think Congress is putting on a united face? Isn’t there a dispute on who their leader will be?
I’ll say the situation is conducive for them to stay united.
Another problem with UDF, it seems, is that there is no clear leader. Unlike in the past, four-five names are being projected now. Isn’t that leading to confusion?
I don’t want to talk about it (smiles). Since it’s Congress’ internal issue, it isn’t proper for me to comment.
We aren’t talking about Congress. We are talking about the leader of UDF...
That will happen when the time comes.
Did you have any indications you wouldn’t come to power in 2021?
No. We had no such doubts.
What’s the reason LDF returned to power?
Factors like the distribution of kits played a huge role.
You said the situation is conducive for UDF to come to power. Can you point out three-four cases where you see the Pinarayi Vijayan government has failed in the past nine-plus years?
The main thing is the LDF government hasn’t implemented anything they have promised. For instance, they have announced a Rs 12,000-crore Idukki package. Other than public statements, there’s nothing. Likewise, the distribution of title deeds. That process here (Idukki district) has been stayed by the courts. Then, there are concerns regarding the health sector. There are lots of negatives.
Will you be contesting again?
I haven’t decided yet.
We hear a new leadership is in the works for your party...
See, it’s a collective leadership.
Will there be a new chairman?
There are no such discussions on that front right now.
Will Apu (Joseph’s son) contest the assembly election?
He is active and is attending public functions.
There are speculations Apu will be the party’s candidate in Thodupuzha if you aren’t contesting?
I don’t want to say anything now (smiles).
You were one of the key campaigners in the Mullaperiyar dam issue...
The Mullaperiyar danger still hangs over us. If an earthquake hits the region or the dam overflows following extreme rain, we are in trouble. For instance, had the extreme rainfall event of 1999 in the Munnar-Devikulam belt occurred in Mullaperiyar, it would have been dangerous. Mullaperiyar falls in a seismic zone. We can’t say the dam is safe even now. We need to decommission the (Mullaperiyar) dam as it has completed 130 years.
Can you explain the circumstances that led you to join the Achutha Menon government in 1975, after having stayed independent of the fronts?
It’s a long story. After the Emergency, Indira Gandhi expressed an interest in having the Kerala Congress as an alliance partner. I also went for the discussions in Delhi. During those discussions, they accepted whatever demand we put forward.
But most of your people fought against the Emergency...
That isn’t the issue. Kerala Congress stands for the needs of Kerala. Long discussions were held in Delhi. Congress leader K C Pant led the discussions from their side. We demanded 25 seats in the 1977 assembly elections and we were given 23. We won 20 out of the 23 seats we contested.
Are there any plans for Kerala Congress to demand more seats in the upcoming assembly elections?
We haven’t thought about demanding more seats at the moment.
You have the right to demand more seats, don’t you?
We have a good relationship with everyone in the front.
There are talks within Congress to take over some seats from Kerala Congress...
That’s always there. Such moves were there in the last assembly polls too, but nothing happened. I don’t take any such talks seriously.
So, you won’t let go of any seats that Kerala Congress contested last time?
This isn’t the time to talk about seats. There’s no relevance for such discussions now.
Are there any talks now about expanding UDF?
Right now, there are no such discussions.
There are reports RJD is keen to join UDF...
Such issues haven’t come up for discussion in the front.
Local body elections are upon us. Will you demand more seats?
We will certainly demand more seats in areas where we are active.
TNIE team: Rajesh Abraham, Anil S, Abhilash Chandran, Sasidharan Nair M K, Rajesh Ravi, Biju E Paul, Kiran Prakash A Sanesh (photos) Pranav V P (video)