INTERVIEW | IIT-H director gives a glimpse of the steel within

Prof BS Murty hails India’s efforts in space, defence and missile technology.He calls on parents to nudge their wards into core sectors for development of the nation.IIT-H director underplays fear around AI, terms it a new tool that can be used in many areas
IIT-H director BS Murty gestures while speaking to TNIE team during a session of Hyderabad Dialogues
IIT-H director BS Murty gestures while speaking to TNIE team during a session of Hyderabad Dialogues Photo | Sri Loganathan Velmurugan
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10 min read

In an era where technological prowess defines a country’s global standing, Prof BS Murty, director of IIT-Hyderabad, speaks to TNIE about India’s legacy in metallurgy and the advancements in space, nuclear and defence sectors. However, for India to get the coveted ‘developed country’ tag, he believes the country should not only focus on indigenising technology but also creating high-end products capable of competing in the global market. Excerpts:

In the 80s, almost everyone dreamt of securing a govt job. What made you choose metallurgy?

Many people, who go into metallurgy, did not have it as their first option. The same is true for me as well. My father was a clerk in the Public Works Department (PWD). Every day, he would see these executive engineers driving in jeeps, and he thought his son should become a civil engineer. So, one day when I was finishing my Class 10, he asked me, ‘Why don’t you join a polytechnic college?’ At that time, I didn’t know about engineering or other fields. He suggested civil engineering, and so I applied. But back then, civil engineering was the top choice.

To get a seat in civil engineering at the Government Polytechnic in Vijayawada, you needed at least 250 out of 300 marks, and I didn’t have that. Now, around that time, there was also talk of a big steel plant opening in Vizag. There was a belief that if you chose metallurgy, there would be many job opportunities. So metallurgy became my second option, and since very few opted for it, I ended up in that field. But after that, everything changed.

While India was a leader in metallurgy in ancient times, this legacy has faded. Can you brief us about the history and do you think we still have that potential in this contemporary world?

I always tell people there are two things in life: the spiritual and the material. Anything that isn’t spiritual is material, and metallurgy falls into this material category. Whether it’s the chair you sit on or the mug you drink from, they’re all materials. Even software engineers rely on hardware to work on. So, material science is very important, and people are realising this more and more.

As you rightly pointed out, India was ahead of its time in metallurgy. When I was a BTech student, I was taught that steel, the most common metal we use, was first made in the UK by a gentleman named Bessemer, who invented the Bessemer converter that turns pig iron into steel. However, as I continued my studies, particularly during my time at IISc, I discovered that India was making steel thousands of years ago.

My guide, Professor Ranganathan, wrote a book about this. It is focused on what’s called ‘wootz steel,’ made over 2,000 years ago along the borders of Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and even Telangana. The steel was so strong that it was used for making weapons and tools, and it could even cut through a helmet. This steel was known as ukku in Telugu and ekku in Tamil. It was even used by historical figures like Alexander the Great. The steel travelled to China, Japan, Europe and other places, but the crucial issue was that the process of making this steel wasn’t documented. It was passed down orally from generation to generation, which is why we have limited historical records about it.

In fact, in the 1990s, a piece of wootz steel was put under an electron microscope, and scientists found carbon nanotubes — one of the strongest materials ever made. These nanotubes were present in steel made 2,000 years ago, which is remarkable. It raises the question of whether the ancient metallurgists knew about carbon nanotubes or if it was an accident.

Where does India stand now as a country?

To be referred to as a developed country, we should focus more on technology. Unfortunately, most parents in our country want their children to study computer science. Many parents, especially in AP, typically want their child to do a BTech in computer science, secure admission to any college offering the programme and then move to the US for a Master’s degree and eventually settle there. The hard truth is that no country has ever become developed without working on technology.

There are three areas where I believe India has shown that we can actually grow indigenously — space technology, nuclear engineering and missile development. Our achievements in these sectors, such as Chandrayaan and Mangalyaan, are entirely indigenous. When denied access to crucial technologies, India demonstrated resilience, becoming a global leader in satellite launches and developing nuclear technologies without accidents, an impressive feat.

Now, it is time for India to think about the future. This means we must not only focus on indigenising technology but also on creating technologies of such high quality that they can compete on the global market and be sold in every country.

I believe that for this to happen, we need to instil a sense of nationalism, where the nation comes ahead of personal ambition. We all want to succeed, but this should not come at the expense of the nation’s growth. It’s true that jobs in companies like Google or Facebook offer higher salaries. But, joining a company like Tata Steel, Telco or Maruti might not offer (graduates) the same financial rewards, yet that’s where products are made. If brilliant minds from IITs work in such companies, they can make a difference. I see a future where India takes on a more active role in developing global technologies.

The focus should now be on indigenising defence technologies as well. The government’s approach to indigenisation is promising, but it will take time. Once we see progress in defence, this approach will eventually influence other sectors, driving us toward becoming a developed nation in the next 10 to 20 years.

You spoke about students’ preferences and how they’ve shifted over time. When did the transition happen? Was it just about salaries, or was it the perceived difficulty of core streams? Or was it simply the kind of lifestyle that certain fields promise?

Firstly, yes, life in some fields is seen as easier. For example, working in IT often means sitting in AC offices, which is far from being in a steel plant or a manufacturing unit.

Now, imagine being a 21-year-old fresh graduate. The idea of moving to such a place might not appeal to someone who dreams of city life. Additionally, there’s a perception that manufacturing jobs are tougher compared to IT or other fields.

However, this perception is outdated. If you visit a car manufacturing unit like Tata Motors, you’ll see automation everywhere. Welding, forging and rolling, most processes are now controlled via robotics, and many engineers work from air-conditioned control rooms. Yet, the impression left by the older generation — of hard, uncomfortable work — stays back.

Parents play a crucial role here. I strongly believe that if parents adopt a more nationalistic perspective, their children might be inspired to follow. For instance, kids from military families often pursue similar careers because they grow up witnessing the pride and dedication their parents have for their nation. This sense of purpose is often missing in civilian households. Parents need to communicate that life in core fields isn’t as hard as it’s made out to be, especially today.

Another factor to consider is the saturation in popular fields like IT. Eventually, opportunities will dry up, forcing students to reconsider core branches.

How interest are students in emerging fields like AI?

I would say the interest in AI is immense and growing rapidly. In fact, very soon, AI is going to overshadow traditional branches like CSE. I am confident that in five years, students won’t even consider CSE; they’ll all want to pursue AI. It is becoming an omnipresent force — like a god permeating every field.

What about AI replacing jobs? Is there fear among students? How do you view it?

AI is like a tool, like mathematics, which is used in almost every field. When computers first came, there was widespread fear that they would cause job loss, but the opposite happened. AI will follow the same trajectory. What is important is we should focus equally on manufacturing using AI and see how it helps. To upscale new technology commercially, connecting with industries is important.

Some experts in the West, particularly those who are deeply involved in AI, are warning that it could soon become catastrophic if no one pays attention to it. Do you think it’s possible for AI to become conscious?

As a scientist, I believe science is agnostic about how it is used. You can use atomic energy in a fission reaction to create a bomb, or you can use the same technology to generate energy.

The same can be said about AI. It depends on who uses the technology and the mindset with which it is approached. That’s why I say that ideally, in India, everyone should be a yogi. What do I mean by yogi? A balanced person.

If everyone were balanced and knew what was right and wrong, it would make a world of difference. In fact, Ashtanga Yoga starts with this very concept — what is right, what is wrong? What should you do, and what should you not do? This understanding of righteousness, or viveka, is crucial. Viveka means knowing what is right and wrong. If this is taught from childhood, people will use technology, including AI, in a responsible and progressive manner.

That’s why I emphasise that degrees are not the same as education. Education is about knowing what is right and wrong.

You mentioned the focus is on innovation for humanity. What do you think is the moral responsibility of researchers, not just in India but globally?

The issues we are discussing, such as global warming, arise because we didn’t give enough importance to our social responsibility earlier. Now, everyone experiences the consequences. Those who contributed to damaging nature are now asking us to behave responsibly.

It’s crucial to be socially responsible. In renewable energy, like solar power, we talk about the circular economy. But are we sure that while producing materials for solar panels we’re not generating toxic byproducts? Every technology we develop should be evaluated for its environmental impact.

You’ve been in academics for so long. We frequently hear that students from underprivileged sections work extremely hard to get into prestigious institutions like IITs. However, many of them end up taking their own lives. Why do you think this happens? And what do you think the solution is?

The solution is simple, we need to teach our kids how to face failure. Unfortunately, our society has this deep-rooted notion that you must always be at the top. In IIT, every student was a topper in their school and now, let’s say, there are 50 students in a single engineering branch. Only one will be the topper.

Learning to accept that not being the topper doesn’t make you any less of a person and that you can still enjoy your subject and grow in it, is something essential. But what’s also happening is that the objective nature of exams, like JEE, has created a system where coaching centres teach students not to understand the subject deeply but to “smell” the answer — basically, focusing on tricks to solve problems rather than building knowledge.

So, a student enters IIT with the mentality of solving multiple-choice questions quickly, but once they’re inside, the exams are far more comprehensive and problem-solving-based. They need to unlearn these shortcuts and approach learning in a new way. Additionally, the rigorous semester system leaves little room for relaxation, and a small slip-up, like getting a D grade, becomes overwhelming, especially when the pressure from family to perform is so intense.

I still remember a student who died by suicide after joining IIT-H. In his note, he expressed that he was constantly compared with others and couldn’t cope with it. His parents had moved back from the US with the hope that their child would make it to IIT and then go abroad. But when the student’s CGPA fell short, he couldn’t handle the pressure, and the weight of comparisons led him to take that drastic step.

Comparing yourself to others can either make you feel superior or inferior — neither of which is healthy. The point is that failure is part of the process, and we need to change the narrative around it.

Just like AI, GCCs (Global Capability Centres) are currently a buzzword. Almost every other day, a new GCC is being established. Do you talk to your students about it?

An IIT system is not a top-down structure. A director does not dictate what everyone should do. Instead, the role of the administration is to enable things — to provide an ecosystem where faculty and students can achieve their goals.

This doesn’t mean every student must leave with a diploma or follow a specific path. The environment we create allows for flexibility. If a student wants to pursue a diploma and move forward with it, they can. There are countless opportunities available, and everyone can choose their own path.

You’ve been a scientist for a long time, and you also have an interest in philosophy. How do you see the convergence of science and spirituality?

Yes, actually, if you go deep into it. If you’re a pseudo scientist, it won’t happen. But if you’re a real scientist, it will. A true scientist, for example, I don’t know if you’ve heard of Bertrand Russell’s books. One of my favourite books by him is The Conquest of Happiness. In it, he discusses interesting ideas, such as the colour of this table. You might say the table is grey or brown, and you’d state “The colour of the table is brown”. But if you look deeper, how do you perceive that brownness? When light falls on the table, all colours are absorbed except one, which is reflected. The reflected colour is what you see. So, essentially, the table rejects a colour, and you’re calling that its colour. This brings up the question, what is truth? What is truly real?

For example, when I see you, how does that happen? Light falls on your face, gets reflected, and I see you. But in a dark room, I can’t see you. However, when light falls on you, if that light distorts your face, I’m only seeing the distorted version. What you were before the light fell on you remains unknown to me. The true state of the material is unknown. This makes the concept of truth highly questionable. As a scientist, I recognise this. That’s why, when someone delves deeply into science, they come to understand that certain things are beyond their grasp. What I see is not the truth, it’s a falsehood. Truth can only be experienced, not experimentally observed.

These are the realisations of a true scientist. Great scientists, upon probing deeper into science, often became philosophers. They realised there was something beyond human comprehension. Once you accept that some things are out of your hands, you must learn to accept them.

Siddhartha is one of my favourite books. My son’s name is inspired by it. The book, written by Hermann Hesse, a German Nobel laureate, isn’t about Buddha but explores the struggles of someone seeking realisation — understanding the question “Who am I?”

Science still has gaps, there’s still much we don’t understand. A scientist seeks to know more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing. Conversely, a philosopher seeks to know less and less about more and more until they know nothing about everything.

TNIE team: Kalyan Chakravarthy,B Kartheek, Aarti Kashyap, Ajay Tomar, Ankush Bandyopadhyay, Vennapusala Ramya, Nitika Krishna, Darshita Jain and Siddhi

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