As non-governmental opinion across the world begins to shift in the face of Israel’s unrelenting bombardment-cum-blockade of Gaza — which has killed well over 4,000 so far, including in a disputed but devastating airstrike on a hospital — Israeli diplomacy is keen to retain the moral legitimacy that it derived for its actions from the original Hamas attack of October 7.
Peace and coexistence can be given a chance only after the military operation is over, says Israel’s ambassador to India Naor Gilon. “There can be no discussions when we are threatened. Only after we eliminate Hamas will we consider other options,” he asserted during the 7th edition of Delhi Dialogues.
Excerpts:
Santwana Bhattacharya: How would you describe the current situation and how long-drawn is this war/conflict going to be?
We will have to go two weeks back to know what happened on October 7. Unlike earlier, it wasn’t just a skirmish. The atrocities were a game-changer from the Israeli point of view. There was a collapse of our conceptual approach towards Hamas — Hamas ISIS. Close to 7,000 rockets were fired. They started it and crossed the border under the bombing and killed whoever they saw; 1,400 people died, 3,000 were wounded and 200 were kidnapped. As many as 260 youngsters were killed in the midst of a party.
This is worse than 9/11. Israel cannot afford to live in this condition. In 2005 more than 10,000 Jews lived in Gaza when the Palestinian Authority was in power. A year later Hamas came to power and did nothing for the welfare of Palestine. People from Gaza went to work in Israel and earned their livelihood. We thought that this would deter them from attacking us. That was a huge mistake.
How to rectify the mistake? Eliminate Hamas and bring back kidnapped civilians. This will be a different ground operation, which will be stronger and longer.
Santwana Bhattacharya: Israel was known for its impregnable security setup. How was that breached?
In Israel, we are speculating on what went wrong. Everyone took responsibility. We thought there would be no war, life was better in Gaza. We misunderstood. That’s the first reason. At least 2.2 million people are living in Gaza in a 7km wide and 20km long area. In many areas, people can cross over. We have to prepare better. The final blow will come to Hamas.
Santwana Bhattacharya: The Al Ahli hospital attack in Gaza led to a blame game. What is your stand?
There is no doubt that the hospital was attacked, but it wasn’t us. Within 10 minutes, Hamas counted 471 bodies. However, in Israel, we found evidence of radars and cameras and phone conversations between terrorists that showed that Hamas was responsible. The US President said it too. There is an attempt to draw an equivalence between information and disinformation. A French news agency says 50 died in the hospital when a rocket, fired from behind the hospital, struck it. We are doing all we can to minimise the impact on the civilian population. Hamas is using people as human shields. It is trying to create international pressure by playing the victim card.
Yeshi Seli: How many Israeli hostages are with Hamas? How do you intend to bring them back? Have you heard from them?
There are more than 200. We do not know how many are alive. Taking civilians hostage is a war crime. We are not sure where they are. How we take them out, we don’t know. A ground operation is an option, which is rather complex. There is no alternative other than to go in and bring them back.
Yeshi Seli: The Iranian foreign minister had said if the war doesn’t slow down, Hezbollah (an Iran-supported Shia militant group based in Lebanon) will join in…
We are certain that Hamas was backed by Iran. Even though Iran is Shia and Hamas is Sunni, it’s a marriage of convenience. Hamas is trained and financed by Iran. All this is aimed at disrupting developments in West Asia. There were talks between Saudi Arabia and Israel, then there is the I2U2 (India, Israel, US and UAE) partnership and the IMEC (India-Middle East-Europe Economic) Corridor, which will connect India, West Asia to Europe through a multimodal transport route.
Santwana Bhattacharya: What are you expecting from India?
We are really moved by the wide support we have received from India. I am inundated with messages from people living across India. PM Modi on October 7 was among the first to denounce the attack and showed his support for Israel. He also spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu.
Neha Sonthalia: In the past, there have been peace agreements (Oslo Accords). Do you see that happening?
When people speak of the two-state solution, they are not being realistic. There is a three-state solution needed. Gaza is an independent state. Palestinians cannot speak on behalf of Gaza. All past narratives don’t stand. Once the operation is over, we can look at peace, coexistence. We have to eliminate the risk. There can be no discussions when we are threatened. Only after we eliminate Hamas will we consider other options.Terrorists are enemies of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other Gulf countries. We want to defuse this and we should succeed with international support. Some countries cannot openly support us due to public sentiment.
Santwana Bhattacharya: Even many Jews have urged for a ceasefire...
Such protests are from fringe elements, just like the fringe that India is challenged by in Canada. Most Jews support Israel for the need to have a Jewish State. There are some Jews who are anti-Israel and Arabs who speak against Hamas. There is no pressure to stop us.
Yeshi Seli: China proposed peace in alliance with Egypt for the ongoing conflict. Your views
Some countries talk like this as they want to go against the superpowers. It’s a multi-polar world and it’s a world of mini-laterals. Smaller organisations are doing better; bigger ones don’t arrive at any solution.