The Hema Committee report, which was made public on August 19, after nearly five years in cold storage has created nothing short of an explosion in the Malayalam cinema. Though the revelations of the report including that of systemic sexual abuse of women are not new and have always been there as rumours in the atmosphere, one thing the report has done is legitimise such experiences narrated by women and more than anything else, demand accountability. But how far can the report get us? What are the challenges on the way to holding the perpetrators accountable and implementing the recommendations?
Team TNIE in conversation with noted film editor Bina Paul and veteran actor Gayathri Varsha, members of Women in Cinema Collective (WCC), which was instrumental in the constitution of the committee.
How do you look at the responses to the findings of the Hema Committee?
Bina Paul: The unnatural kind of attention that only actors attract is deeply disturbing. To shift the narrative away from just the ‘actors and sexual harassment’, context is very important. Sexual harassment is undoubtedly prevalent, and totally unacceptable. The report is not just about actors, but also about women who work as technicians, makeup artists, hair stylists, assistant directors, cinematographers, editors, etc. This report is about women as a labour force in Malayalam cinema.
But sexual harassment is one of the major issues...
Bina: We are no moral police. What we are saying is that when power structure is involved and people don’t have a voice, using your sexuality and your position to receive unnecessary favours is unacceptable.
Gayathri, how do you see the report?
Gayathri Varsha: What I have always said, even before the formation of the Hema Committee, is that we need a crystal clear film policy. Until now, cinema hasn’t been considered an industry in the technical sense of the term. The film industry and its execution revolves around employee and employer class differences. Hence, class conflict is bound to occur here. I think the Hema Committee report has approached this sector in this context.
We saw two kinds of responses to the report. One section says it portrays the Malayalam film industry in a bad light. The other says the report could be a turning point…
Bina: It isn’t an issue of bad space or good space. We are trying to push the industry towards becoming more professional. From my point of view, the Malayalam film industry is one of the top industries in India. But there’s a lot of exploitation happening. Can we close our eyes to that? That’s the question.
How could merely forming a policy be a solution in a highly disorganised sector like the film industry? For instance, on the issue of equal pay, is it practical?
Bina: Is it just about equal pay? See how it is twisted out of context. We do know that in the Malayalam film industry, as is the case in every film industry all over India, there is a difference in payment for men and women. All I am saying is equal work, equal pay.
But there is this example of Nayanthara getting more remuneration than her male co-stars. That makes it a matter of market value, not gender...
Bina: You only concentrate on the thin layer comprising stars. What about the cinematographer, the editor, and the rest? Till only a few years ago, a male dubbing artist and a female dubbing artist drew different payments.
Gayathri: We should consider different jobs separately and implement an equal pay system within a particular job-frame. A huge amount of the total project cost is now paid to superstars as remuneration. For example, of the Rs 10 crore (total project cost), Rs 8 crore goes to the hero. They then compromise on payments to the lower strata of artists.
Is the Malayalam film industry such a bad place to work, as has been portrayed in the Hema Committee report?
Bina: What’s meant by a bad place? It’s tough for women to work. That is the truth. Ask the cinematographer. It’s not a comfortable space. I have survived for very long. But I have also been very scared. A lot of people have survived and done very well. There is much scope for change. That’s the point here.
This report speaks about issues that happened eight to 10 years ago. The industry has changed a lot post-Covid...
Bina: This isn’t post-Covid. It’s post-WCC (Women in Cinema Collective). The presence of WCC has made a difference in Malayalam cinema. Over the past four or five years, the very fact that we raised gender as an issue has made some difference. There is at least some awareness now. There have been some changes but not enough, as there is a bit of fear involved. The system hasn’t changed.
Gayathri: The difference now is that a new generation has come up above the existing hierarchy in the industry. We have ventured into a new space where we can shoot low-budget films, without interference from producers or exhibitors.
Doesn’t it have more to do with the mindset?
Bina: Let me speak about something that hasn’t even been thought about in Malayalam cinema — creches. Many women who work have nowhere to leave their children. Every IT company has a creche. When I say this, almost everyone will be astonished: ‘Is this about maternity leave? Get lost!’ This kind of a response arises because cinema hasn’t been given the status of a profession. However, whenever such concerns are raised, we are labelled as troublemakers.
After the ‘Me Too’ movement, many women who worked behind the camera lost their jobs as employing women became ‘risky’. Do you fear the same can happen after the Hema Committee report too?
Bina: That’s the wrong attitude. Why do women have to leave the profession, when they either get married or have a child? Attrition is highest among women in most professions.
Wouldn’t the producer then prefer a male cinematographer instead of a female cinematographer, as he would have to provide separate facilities?
Bina: It’s an attitudinal problem. You’ll then have to keep all women at home.
Gayathri: The maternity leave a woman would take is just two years, out of the 40 years she works. Where will we include the cash spent on liquor for a male chief technician? In which budget is this included?
Bina: I don’t care who drinks, be it men or women. That isn’t the point. Where are the labour benefits for women?
But don’t you see such a risk?
Bina: You mean to say we shouldn’t ask for it! This is the attitude we need to change.
Cultural Affairs Minister Saji Cherian has said those with power and money will control and those without it will be oppressed. He asks how such an order can be changed...
Bina: There should be awareness starting from the top. This is where we speak about attitudinal change.
A dangerous narrative built around the Hema Committee report is that all successful actresses were ready to ‘compromise’ and those unwilling were thrown out...
Bina: That’s rubbish. That is a wrong narrative... a sort of slut shaming. There’s an attempt to pitch women against women. As if all the women have reached the top because they compromised. What nonsense? Who is saying that? The whole idea of putting women against women is part of this. You completely divert from the actual issues but make it a sensational story.
The actress assault case was a culmination of negative experiences the Malayalam film industry has seen over the past decades. Did it take such an incident for even the WCC to be formed?
Bina: Only when women in the industry started talking to each other did we realise there’s a commonality of experiences and we need to confront many things together. WCC is an idea, basically.
Since its inception, have women artists or technicians come up before WCC with complaints?
Bina: We have heard horrifying stories. We know how the system works or how powerful men work. We have done what we can and we have not made a fuss about it. WCC does a lot of things. WCC isn’t only about making noise. We believe there’s a need for all of us to work together in an equitable space in the industry.
Has AMMA ever tried to address issues such as harassment or identified atrocities against women as a major issue?
Gayathri: I’m not a member of AMMA, nor connected with its activities. Yes, complaints have come before them. But, for them, a woman is just a body.
Are you talking about AMMA or the Malayalam film industry?
Gayathri: AMMA, especially, and also the film industry. As per international gender surveys, another century and a half will be needed to even think about equality among men and women. We enter the workplace at a time when the very mindset of society commodifies women.
How did WCC convince women in the industry to open up to the Hema Committee? Was the secrecy clause an important aspect of that?
Bina: Absolutely. As everyone knows, there are powerful forces...
But it has reached the court now...
Bina: It is for the court to decide whether it’s going to open it up, whether it is going to prosecute or take action suo motu.
The assurance given to women who spoke to the Hema Committee was that their identity won’t be revealed in public. But we are seeing a totally different scenario now or are possibly going to see in the future...
Bina: It is neither Hema nor we nor anybody else who is giving it out. There is public interest.
In many parts of the report, there is mention of girl and women. The reference to a girl implies that she is a minor. But the government says survivors should come forward...
Bina: I think this government is totally confused. They got this report out and don’t know how to handle it. If there are such serious allegations, the government should look at the report in detail and get legal opinion. I think more gravity should be given to the report. It has to be taken very seriously.
There is also a criminal offence involved...
Bina: We don’t know about that.
Gayathri: We can’t expect knee-jerk reactions from the government to the report’s recommendations. The people involved in the so-called 15-member power group could be actors and they wield cultural influence over society. We need to give the government time instead of blaming it for inaction...
But sitting on the report for four and a half years...
Gayathri: I’m not justifying the government. It is wrong to keep the report aside for four and a half years. The so-called power group may have exerted influence. But they alone are not the film industry. It’s a sector where lakhs of workers are engaged. We should listen to them too. The government doesn’t know all aspects of the film industry. In such a scenario, they may be confused before making a decision.
Bina: Certainly, there are no excuses.
Will the WCC demand a police investigation?
Bina: No. Do you think we have the capacity for that? There’s a government, there’s a legal system, but if there are heinous crimes there should be someone answerable.
So what is WCC’s demand?
Bina: We are going to come out with specific recommendations, we are going to talk to various associations and the government. We are trying to bring changes of that kind.
The legal fraternity feels action can be taken on the report under the PoSH (Prevention of Sexual Harassment) Act. What’s your take?
Bina: Is it for WCC alone to consider? It may be the government or law department or Women’s Commission or AMMA. It can be anybody.
WCC has no plans to do it?
Bina: We haven’t reached there yet. We believe that if there are heinous crimes there must be penal action.
It’s being pointed out that the whole industry has been centred around a few people. The Hema Committee report speaks of a power structure that controls everything...
Bina: The Malayalam film industry does have a power structure. We have to understand there’s big money involved.
Gayathri: We should look at it from that perspective. We shouldn’t personalise it. We are not trying to protect anyone.
Bina: Exactly. No one is protecting anyone. But it’s about big money, on a scale that’s unimaginable in this industry. We are talking about an industry running into several crores, generating much-needed revenue to the government. So, it isn’t about one or two people. From the person who gives money to the person who makes money, there’s a whole nexus that’s almost beyond comprehension. So, narrowing it down to one or two people is not right.
The report speaks about an all-male power group that runs the industry. Is this power structure the reason for all such issues?
Gayathri: That’s a wrong perception. They are the visible figures. If your first three movies are blockbusters, the fourth movie will be under your own production banner. How does it happen? Money flows in. You just need to remain there. If you get an offer of Rs 50 lakh, and if there’s someone ready to pump in Rs 50 crore on your behalf, who’s running the show? You too are a mere pawn in their hands.
Bina: It’s a complex industry because of the nature of money involved. It’s not simplistic. We ourselves have no idea. Actors may probably know a bit more.
Based on the report, what are the immediate require-ments?
Bina: We need to study the report, sit together and figure out how to address these issues.
The government is planning a film conclave...
Bina: We aren’t against such things. But we need clarity. If the same people involved are going to sit and discuss, we aren’t interested. Now that we have the findings, we can work towards recommendations. The whole responsibility is not on WCC alone. Every woman in the industry, every professional in the industry is responsible.
The Hema Committee report has confirmed the general belief that the film industry is not a safe place for women...
Bina: Yes, some of these have unfortunately been confirmed. But we hope that it’ll change. It’s not all that simple. Most notions nurtured about the film industry originate from a perspective that has always been widely prevalent in society, given any point in time or era. Women who have pursued the arts or have been/are performers or artists have always been considered of a particular kind/type. That still holds true. We say let’s give scholarships, internships for such women. Let’s bring more women into the industry.
What will you tell young women who want to join the industry?
Bina: I would say ‘come, come, come’. It’s a wonderful profession, a wonderful place to work in... but do know your mind, know your rights, and learn to speak up.
The committee has recommended reservations for women. Do you support it?
Bina: The Swedish film industry is an example. One woman who headed the Swedish Film Institute made it the norm that to avail financial assistance, there should be 50% women on the sets. Everyone mocked her. But today, all their movie sets have 50% women. That’s how you implement change.
Is reservation possible in a creative space?
Bina: It’s not meant to be ‘reservation’ in a permanent sense. You may have to go in for such drastic measures in the current context. Such things may no longer be needed after, maybe, a decade.
Gayathri: First of all, it’s a profession — technical or non-technical — that requires some kind of knowledge, especially in this era. We’ve more women opting for higher education. We can bring in reservation for academic and technical studies on films. It’ll ensure more women come into the industry, and that’ll add more strength to women. Even if we manage to keep away the 15 people (who operate as a power group), there will always be another 15 waiting to occupy the space.
There’s increasing demand to name the 15 people who operate as a power group. Is that WCC’s demand too?
Bina: No. In this case, our focus is not on naming and shaming. In some cases, we will name and shame. We are not however interested in a witch-hunt. But an ‘expose’ was important.
Whether it’s about these 15 or some others, when we don’t name them, aren’t we in a sense protecting them? In the ‘Me Too’ movement, Harvey Weinstein was named and that brought in a major change in Hollywood...
Bina: We should also think about how women in the field can be protected. We are saying let’s bring in a systemic change. Removing one Weinstein won’t bring the whole change. Some women may now have the guts to speak out. In its press conference, AMMA said it hasn’t received any complaints. We know there have been complaints but these weren’t addressed.
It’s being said that AMMA has only sons, and no daughters...
Bina: What was its attitude towards WCC?
Has AMMA acknowledged WCC’s presence?
Beena: (Laughs) We don’t need their approval to exist.
Why is WCC not acceptable to the majority of women in Malayalam cinema?
Bina: Look at any women’s movement. The moment you ask questions, you are disliked. This too is part of such history. Any questioning by women is first met with resistance.
Similarly, another criticism about WCC is that it often chooses to remain part of the establishment...
Bina: That isn’t true. Look at the Hema Committee report. We had to struggle so much for almost five years to just get it into the public domain. We are not part of the establishment. But we need to work with it, because it’s this establishment that can help us bring change. We are a strong group of women who have come together. We have a lot of structural problems. But we still know how to pull it all together.
There are opinions about setting up an ICC (internal complaints committee) on shooting sets. Some say it’s impractical...
Bina: We know it’s currently not working out too well, but it’s the law of the land. It has to be implemented. We have a monitoring committee. We could look at who could be the outside expert. Does the government need representation? But dismissing the ICC is not the solution. You have to engage with the problems and not dismiss it outright. All organisations should sit together and discuss.
The biggest criticism against the government is that it sat on the report for almost five years. According to WCC, what should have been done?
Bina: The government should have studied it in great detail and taken us into confidence, as we are one of the major stakeholders. We could have discussed it. There were so many ways in which the government could have engaged with this report more seriously.
Is the fact that the government didn’t opt for a police investigation a matter of concern for WCC?
Bina: I don’t think so. Because I don’t know what exactly they have in their hands. Maybe, it’s required. If there are serious complaints, of course, they have to be looked into.
Do you think the Hema Committee report will be some sort of a wake-up call?
Bina: Not only for Kerala but for the whole of India. Everybody is a little bit shaken by this. The tremors of the report can be felt in the industry. Look at the number of women coming out, and the kind of attention it’s drawing. It’s still a feudal industry, unfortunately. That has to change. I think that will happen (smiles).
TNIE team: Cithara Paul, Anil S, K S Sreejith, Sovi Vidyadharan
Vincent Pulickal (photos), Harikrishna B, Pranav V P (video)
