This is the first time a husband-wife duo has become chief secretaries in succession...
Sarada (laughs): Neither of us expected to become chief secretaries. Compared to other states, Kerala is one state which adheres strictly to the seniority ranking of officials. Both of us are batchmates. He was ranked higher and so became CS early.
Both of you are deemed to have a good equation with the LDF government…
Sarada (interrupts): We have worked under the governments of both fronts. But we became district collectors when the Left government was in power. Also, my association with Kudumbashree lasted six years.
Kudumbashree has been a game changer and Kerala’s unique contribution to the nation. Your’s is one of the faces that comes to mind every time Kudumbashree is mentioned…
Sarada: The most prominent face of Kudumbashree is T K Jose who led the mission for the first eight years. My contribution was the institutionalisation of the mission. I joined Kudumbashree sensing that it was an opportunity to make the voices of women belonging to the lower strata of society heard. Kudumbashree has now evolved as a force to reckon with. The commitment, resilience, and solidarity the women showed was so touching.
Have heard that the then Union textiles minister Smriti Irani handpicked you for the post of National Institute of Fashion Technology director general. How did your appointment happen? How was that experience?
Sarada: I believe I was made the DG because of my Kudumbashree connection. At NIFT, there are lots of women whose issues had to be highlighted. They probably thought I may fit the bill (smiles). I went to see the minister (Irani) and asked her to excuse me from this posting. I tried to convince her by saying that my character did not suit the post. But she didn’t budge.
It’s said you have been the simplest director general NIFT has ever had…
Sarada (laughs out): I’m a person who didn’t even know the ‘f’ of fashion. I hardly knew how to pronounce certain brand names. I had no clue about the fashion world. As I was heading the Kudumbashree at the time, I wanted to be approachable and my dressing style reflected the same. After taking over as DG, Smriti Irani told her colleagues that I needed a makeover (laughs).
Did you cut your hair short during this phase?
Sarada: No, it was during my stint with the panchayat department. I had to crop my hair because of hair loss. It wasn’t a fashion statement.
How was Smriti Irani as a minister?
Sarada: She is a tough taskmaster and her officials dreaded meeting her. She was thorough with her portfolio. She has clarity in whatever she does... no beating around the bush. Her background in the entertainment industry and her proficiency in several languages also helped. We overhauled the entire curriculum on the basis of international pedagogy and ushered in lots of creative people. All in all, it was a fascinating period.
You were the state topper in SSLC. But you chose to pursue English Literature…
Sarada: I had cleared the entrance examination for engineering and medical courses (smiles).
It must have been tough convincing your parents, especially because your mother was the first lady engineer in the state…
Sarada: My parents were teachers at the engineering college. My mother too was a school topper. There was pressure on me and my sister to study well and score high marks. I wanted to opt humanities for pre-degree. But my parents asked me to wait for some more time. So, I opted for a science group for my pre-degree course. Once I cleared the entrance, my parents took me to the Guruvayoor temple and told me to make a final decision after prayers there. After praying at the temple, I told them that I still wanted to join the literature course, and they allowed me to do it.
Then, how did civil services happen?
Sarada: When I joined the English Literature course, I had promised them that I would appear for the civil services examination. My mother’s wish to have a doctor at home became a reality when I married Dr Venu (laughs out).
What qualities of Dr Venu attract you?
Sarada: First and foremost, I was attracted by the fact that he was a rebel (smiles).
Have heard he was a firebrand student leader…
Sarada: Yes, he was. I had heard many stories about him as a defiant leader who led the agitation at the Kozhikode medical college. I was hence curious about the selection of someone like him for the civil services. I remember him boarding the train wearing Hawai chappals. One of the passengers didn’t have a ticket. Venu offered his berth to the middle-aged man, spread a sheet of paper, and slept on the floor. That gesture caught my attention and we began talking, marking the start of our journey together.
Dr Venu, now we would like to hear your side of the story…
Venu (smiles): I saw a dreamer in Sarada... I got that vibe from her. Despite having taken up a wide variety of activities in a short period, she still possesses a deep appreciation for poetry and reading. I quickly recognised these qualities of a poet, a dreamer, and an artist. They stand in striking contrast to my own world and circumstances. She was someone who got an opportunity to live abroad to study the culture there. She was from a different world and I was fascinated by her.
The socio-cultural ethos of Kozhikode and Thiruvananthapuram differ…
Venu: Yes, very much. We were from two different worlds.
You are handing over the keys of a house to your wife. But the problem is that the house is neck deep in poverty...
Venu: Very true (smiles).
Sarada: Poverty eradication is my job (laughs out)!
Dr Venu, this handing over is happening at a difficult time... what advice would you offer to the new chief secretary?
Venu: I have no advice to offer Sarada on this matter, as she has more administrative experience than I do and has handled tougher responsibilities. Cabinet matters won’t pose any problems for her. The chief secretary’s role is not a strictly defined one. Eighty percent of the responsibilities are fixed. The remaining 20% is personalised, reflective of each individual’s unique approach.
How different is your style of functioning?
Venu: Our differing personalities become evident in how we handle the job. When faced with 10 problems, I tend to tackle them one by one. Five or six may be resolved correctly, while the others may not be so. I
find the process of problem-solving fascinating, though many people find it challenging. My inclination is to address and resolve these issues myself. Sarada is more contemplative, whereas I am more impulsive. You will now get to see a calmer chief secretary and her office.
Sarada: I find him mercurial, with a tendency to be impulsive and a knack for coming up with ideas. He can make ideas that seem impulsive and effective almost always, a quality I lack. I need some prodding.
You both started off from the same point. But compared to a man, a woman has a lot of hurdles to overcome, whatever be her position...
Sarada: As a young female officer, the biggest challenge was a lack of access to information. There were few women around, and I was mostly surrounded by men. I had no access to informal networks and insights that a male colleague may gain through his associations. Crucial confidential information within the system eluded us, which was essential for administrative orientation. As Venu said, he was very casual with people. What if a lady officer behaves similarly! No matter how liberal she is. So, there is a limitation. For a woman, night-time and isolated areas require extra caution, which restricts movement, even for something as simple as going to a guest house.
Also, as a mother...
Sarada: Motherhood brings its own set of challenges. Balancing work with child-bearing and being a young mother is daunting, and many people lose the ability to enjoy life because of that. I don’t know why, but fathers don’t seem to face the same issue. (Venu nods in agreement)
Was both partners being in the civil services a help or a hindrance?
Sarada: We used to discuss a wide range of topics. He would bring new ideas to me. And we collaborated on several projects, for instance, when Venu introduced the concept of responsible tourism, it had three components: social, economic and cultural responsibilities. We developed the economic aspect through a partnership with Kudumbashree. We have discussed numerous issues and sometimes had squabbles (laughs).
Dr Venu, you are one of those who changed the face of Kerala’s tourism sector…
Venu: Kerala’s tourism marketing was a great experience for me. It felt like a blank canvas on which we tried to create various drawings. Our imagination, ambition, and drive were limitless, though our funds were not. That’s how Kerala, which was largely unknown except for a single destination like Kovalam, became a global brand—thanks to the ambitious nature of the brand.
You are also the one behind the highly successful ‘Incredible India’ tagline…
Venu: When I was on deputation in New Delhi, I worked under Amitabh Kanth for a period. I used to criticise the Union tourism ministry a lot (chuckles). He once asked me what I would do if I was in charge of the ministry. I asked for a day and thought about it a lot. Then, the term ‘Incredible India’ struck me. It held enormous possibilities from a branding and marketing point of view. That’s how ‘Incredible India’ was born.
As someone with lots of experience in the tourism sector, should the sector concentrate on high-end tourism or domestic tourism?
Venu: Everyone travels nowadays. You can’t curtail it. But Kerala has already achieved a stable high-value brand.
Dr Venu, you also worked as the environment secretary. Kerala is one place with lots of environmental fundam-entalists…
Venu: Environment being a science, one has to be scientific in one’s assertions. We cannot leave it entirely to environmental activists. When you say that quarrying is responsible for a disaster, the facts must back you too.
How serious is the issue of climate change?
Venu: Kerala is one of the most vulnerable places in India, when one considers climate change. Five to eight years ago, we thought of climate change as some sort of a creepy phenomenon!
How equipped is the state disaster management authority?
Sarada: Until the 2018 flood happened, the local self-government institutions didn’t have any major role to play. During the flood, LSGs were however the first respondents.
The 2018 flood brought to the fore the many pluses and minuses of Kerala. What was the experience in handling the natural calamity?
Venu: I was in the control room continuously for five days. We were all overwhelmed. What was shocking was the fact that we were working on highly inadequate data in the control room. Dams were getting filled and the rain was hardly abating. There were no scientific inputs of the quantity of water to be released from dams. Some dams were on the verge of collapse. A major part of my job was coordinating with the national agencies and other states for rescue and relief. I also coordinated the air rescue operations and planned sorties. Over 13 lakh people were lodged in relief camps. The incident was testimony to the resilience and interconnectedness of our people.
From a mitigation point of view, how far have we progressed from the flood of 2018 to the landslide of 2024?
Sarada: After the flood of 2018, it was in December 2019 that we issued guidelines and a situation analysis was carried out in January and February
next year. Then there was Covid. During that time, the inventory of healthcare professionals was available at the local level. The gaps in data of various institutions could be bridged by the inventory database of local bodies. It was due to this database that we could take swift action such as setting up quarantine centres and CLFTCs in the shortest
possible time during the pandemic. But without follow-up for two to three years after Covid, we slipped into complacency. In the 2024 landslide, an entirely new team was there at the local body level, unlike in 2018. We could train them only in virtual mode and that was the biggest difficulty faced by the department.
Has there been a failure on the part of the government in realising that despite initiatives like Rebuild Kerala? It took three-four days to come up with inventories of physical damage for a landslide that affected only a few wards...
Sarada: Don’t look at it that way. It could be a localised event, but the impact was almost similar to a dam burst. Kerala has never seen such a level of devastation.
Venu: Our first priority was to rescue everyone, and to provide relief to those who survived. The inventory of physical damage comes later.
The question is about accountability. Wasn’t there any government data on the number of people living in that region?
Venu: We have accurate data on the number of people there. But we didn’t know how many of them succumbed and how many survived. That was the scale of devastation. More than hundreds were washed away.
Sarada: Many were missing. Immediately, we started collating data based on different government services like ration cards, electricity connections, and waste collection. Synchronising all such data, we managed to get a total picture of the households there. There was no delay.
During the landslide, the government had issued, and later withdrew, a circular restricting the scientific community from sharing their views with the media. Why was it issued in the first place?
Venu: It was unnecessary, and hence withdrawn immediately. It was a senseless order. However, the backdrop of that directive is simple. When there’s a disaster, we have a task on hand. But there are always a few people who want to comment and criticise. It’s not the first such order. During the Uttarakhand dam burst, a similar order was issued by NDMA. But when such an order is issued in Kerala, it will have a different ramification. That’s why it was withdrawn.
Sarada: There’s another aspect too. When a disaster of such scale strikes, its trauma is huge. People living around these regions too are scared. At that point, any sort of panic is to be avoided. Isn’t it necessary to restrict unnecessary scaremongering at such times?
We need to build confidence among the people. It’s the government which indulges in confidence-building measures, assuring them that it stands with the people. That’s when some people come up with comments that could derail such measures.
Venu: Yes, the order was issued to deter such people. But in Kerala’s context, such an order shouldn’t have been issued.
It’s a rebirth for both of you after a major accident last year... has that changed your approach towards life?
Venu (smiles): For me, it’s the same as before.
Sarada: He used to wear the seat belt differently. No longer (laughs)!
What will you tell those who wear helmets and seat belts only to escape AI cameras?
Sarada: We are alive today only because we wore seat belts.
Venu: How many people in the back row of a car wear seat belts? We both used to wear it. That’s why we are still alive. But because I wore it differently, my housing (referring to his fractured jaws & teeth) suffered damage (laughs).
The whole of Kerala is caught in the throes of the Hema Committee report. Is the government planning to bring in a mechanism to deal with its ramifications?
Venu: It’s an important point. But a multi-departmental discussion on the matter hasn’t happened. The government cannot move away from its responsibility. That’s why an investigation has been ordered. At the end of the day, there are specifics that need to be inquired. Next is a legal process that the police and prosecutors will pursue.
Usually, civil service officials, especially once they reach the level of chief secretary, are class-conscious and keep away from others. You both, however, continue to be simple, mingling with one and all…
Sarada (smiles and prods Venu): You say!
Venu: I think it’s the grounding. Sarada has been at the grassroots of the Kudumbashree movement, transforming it into what it is now. For her, Kudumbashree was a life changing experience that rebuilt her sensibility. But I haven’t had such experiences officially. But while in college, I used to be close to people and organisations who work with common people. Many IAS officers won’t have such an exposure. Also, we were part of a transition generation. When we joined, many senior officers used to wear jackets and ties. But not anymore.
Sarada: Also, civil services used to be the bastion of a certain privileged section of people. All that has changed as civil servants increasingly come from ordinary backgrounds. We will behave only in this manner. Then there is the question of orientation. Are we here to show off or to be part of change?
Your daughter has your surname and your son has Dr Venu’s surname. How did that happen?
Sarada: We just named them like that. We should rather have done it the other way round, right? It should have been Kalyani Venu and Sabari Sarada.
Venu: Yes (smiles).
You were active in theatre circles once. Are you planning to return to that after retirement?
Venu: I’m interested but I need to think about it.
TNIE team: Cithara Paul, Anil S, K S Sreejith, Cynthia Chandran B P Deepu (photos), Pranav V P, Asif Baiju (video)