Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind’s Maulana Mahmood Madani talks to the New Indian Express Editorial Director Prabhu Chawla on the issue of denouncing terrorism; reservations and Indian Muslims on Sachchi Baat on India News
PC: You are a progressive and give nice speeches. Today, the nation is facing a serious question. Are incidents like the one that recently took place is Paris a blot on Islam?
MMM: It has been said several times earlier. Such incidents harm Islam and humanity. Such people are the enemies of Islam and humanity.
PC: Why don’t you all oppose it collectively?
MMM: We have been opposing it.
PC: Are you satisfied with the pitch of opposition to such incidents in India?
MMM: Nowhere in the world is the pitch of opposition to such incidents as high as it has been in India.
PC: How?
MMM: Millions of people have collectively denounced terrorism. They have been constantly doing it. Standing against such incidents with immediate effect is a different issue. It has been happening for years in India. Nowhere in the world have Muslims denounced terrorism like they have in India.
PC: No one has the right to ridicule a religion. I agree with that point of you, but what about taking the lives of 12 people?
MMM: They (the magazine) crossed the limits. On the other hand, they (the terrorists) did something terrible.
PC: The BSP MP said that he would give a reward of Rs 51 crore to those who killed.
MMM: Such views from an individual don’t hold weight. When people with wrong views put across things in the wrong manner, people with the right kind of thoughts don’t get the space to put across their views. Today, all Muslim scholars and organisations have opposed it. One person with a different view stands out and makes it to the headlines.
PC: The film stars, the Khans and (well known lyricist) Javed Akhtar are all quiet.
MMM: Muslim organisations and Muslim scholars have spoken against it.
PC: Are Muslim politicians opposing it?
MMM: Everyone is speaking against it. Unfortunately, people with the wrong kind of views are not getting the space. It’s a serious issue. I believe that the Muslim world agrees on the fact that though the people who have done this have done it on the name of Islam, it goes against Islam. Islam doesn’t give the permission.
PC: Who is supporting and financing them?
MMM: We shouldn’t give it a cursory view. You are talking about looking at the problem. On the one hand people feel that they are not getting justice. Issues are propped… like France… in Syria, the people who have done such things in France, people similar to them have been given the weapons and money. They have given the money for the removal of the regime established there. If you want to remove those people do it with your own might and power.
PC: Do you mean to say that they should be removed through democracy? Is that you mean?
MMM: I am trying to explain what’s happening. What happened in Afghanistan? CIA gave the training to remove the USSR. They were ‘good’ back then. Today, they are ‘bad’. You use them, and you misuse them. And then you become enemies and call them ‘terrorists’.
PC: Do you mean to say that western powers like France and America support such powers who become their enemies later on?
MMM: Exactly. You work with a wrong approach, in the wrong way to compete against your enemy, and to fulfil a political agenda, and then, you blame us later on. And then, you turn around and say that you people are not speaking. What will we say?
PC: Does it mean that they will come and kill people of a particular religion?
MMM: You and I agree with this. There is no difference (of opinion) on this matter. You asked me who is giving them money and weapons. It is essential for me to give the answer. Who gave the money and weapons in Afghanistan?
PC: What about today?
MMM: You will look for the answer. The country has given people like them the weapons and money. I have objection on both aspects. Why do you want to me to accept it on (only) one account? I have objections on both. I agree that they have done wrong. But at the same time I want to ask you …
PC: When there are people in India who offer them Rs 51 crores, it creates an impression that there are people who are encouraging such acts.
MMM: What he has said is wrong.
PC: Why doesn’t anyone stop him? Mayawatiji is quiet.
MMM: Tell me something. So many people are saying so much. And people are quiet. People who can stop them are quiet.
PC: Yes, they can expel (such people) from the party.
MMM: They can do everything. People in politics neither take action against people nor ask them to be quiet.
PC: Does it give a bad name to the community?
MMM: Everything happens.
PC: We have existed together for ages in India. Efforts are being made to break it.
MMM: Yes. Efforts are being made. And people are quiet. They are not saying anything.
PC: Are they scared?
MMM: That’s what I want to ask you. Why are people quiet?
PC: Are efforts being made from both sides to flare up things?
MMM: Yes.
PC: What about people like Owaisi? Say the Sachchi Baat. He said that a person is born a Muslim.
MMM: Let me tell you something. This country is secular. It’s not secular because of a political party. It is secular because of the country, the people, the culture, thetehzeeb. Some organisations are trying to vitiate the atmosphere. Nobody is speaking against it. What he has done is also not right. I don’t consider the attitude and that style appropriate.
PC: Do you agree with him?
MMM: It’s about his style. The style he is using to talk is not right.
PC: Should there be an action against him from you and the government?
MMM: The government should take action against everyone.
PC: True.
MMM: Ek Barelwi maslak ke Maulana saab hain Gujarat mein, unko bandd kar diya. Chaar maheeney puraani baat hai. Baaki log azaad ghoom rahey hain. There should be no discrimination.
PC: Do you agree with those views? Are people living here Hindustani first?
MMM: Someone asked me what comes first, my religion or my country.
PC: I am asking the same.
MMM: (In return) I asked which eye to keep and which to damage. Both eyes are important for me. One eye can’t be damaged. You are asking me who’s more dear to me, my father or my mother. It’s hard for me to take that decision. I look at the father, then, I look at my mother. They have their respective importance.
PC: When it comes to saving the country…
MMM: My religion has said, my Quran has taught me, my Prophet Muhammad has taught me —agar desh ke liye zaroorat pardey apni jaan de dena. I am proud of my religion. It has taught me that when there is the need, you sacrifice your life for your country. Tell me, what is wrong in this?
PC: Which eye will you choose when it comes to the country?
MMM: I will sacrifice my life.
PC: Should the Geeta be taught at Madarsas and the Quran at schools?
MMM: Congratulations to you. It’s a good thing.
PC: Where should it begin first?
MMM: We say it should begin from your end first.
PC: Most welcome.
MMM: We have all the books, including the Geeta in the library. We have to move ahead with a lot of patience and control. I want to make an appeal to the Muslim brothers, Quran ne jitna sabr karne ka, saiyam karne ka hukm diya hai, agar hum uska aadhaa bhi karne ke liye taiyaar ho jaaye, to humaari adhiktar problem solve ho jayengi.
PC: When will our Muslim brothers stop becoming a vote bank?
MMM: It might have happened in some places.. I don’t totally refute it, but I believe that the Muslims have understood. They are taking their own decisions as per the situations and areas.
PC: Do you oppose reservations on the name of religion?
MMM: I oppose it. I believe that economically and socially backward people from any caste of religion should be given (reservation). Pick Article 341. Usmein yeh kiya gaya hai ki jo Musalman hai usko mehroom kar diya gaya hai. Halanki usee ka caste aur usee ke haisiyat ke doosre aadmi ko aap aaj reservation de rahe hain. I say that economically, socially and educationally backward people should be given reservation.
PC: Thanks for coming to our studio.
MMM: Thanks