Sunni leader Kanthapuram A P Aboobacker Musliyar is viewed as one of the tallest Muslim scholars of current times. As the Grand Mufti of India, he has been active in establishing educational institutions across the country and articulating the community’s concerns.
Known abroad as Sheikh Abubakr Ahmad, Kanthapuram Musliyar was recently presented with the Sree Narayana Guru Brotherhood Award in recognition of his contributions to social harmony. In this interaction with TNIE, he opens up about his ‘Kerala Yatra’, Samastha, Sunni unity, Jama’at-e-Islami, equations with political fronts, and more
You recently completed your third ‘Kerala Yatra’. Did you notice any difference? Those who kept a distance from the first two ‘yatras’ were seen cooperating this time. What is your assessment?
Those who did not cooperate on earlier occasions have realised that we do not care about their boycott. They have also realised that the people of the country are with us. Now they are not merely cooperating, but want to be on stage and address the audience. Our aim is also that. We do not want to keep anyone at a distance.
Our experience shows that politics will change, but not our ideology. We should surge forward, firmly rooted in ideology. India is a big country, and over 70% of the people here are non-Muslims. We are aware of this fact. Our Constitution allows everyone to believe in and propagate their religion. We are not against or for any political party. That is why people are coming close to us.
There were calls for Sunni unity at all the meetings organised as part of the ‘Yatra’. We have been hearing this for over a decade. Do you believe the idea of Sunni unity is closer to reality now?
The hallmark of this Yatra is that Sunni unity has indeed become a reality. Differences exist only in name. That, too, will be resolved as and when a situation arises. As you mentioned earlier, there were people who opposed our programmes and attempted to defeat them. There are no such attempts now, as we have achieved unity mentally. What is needed now is the removal of technical difficulties, if there are any.
This is the unity of Muslims. What we are aiming for is the unity of all religions and political parties. The BJP is ruling at the Centre, the LDF in Kerala, and different parties in other states. All the ruling dispensations have given us the freedom to practise our faith. We have launched many projects in cities such as Delhi and Kolkata, and some areas in Uttar Pradesh. We have madrassas and educational institutions in these places. No one is opposing our projects because these programmes do not have any political affiliations.
Samastha was formed a century ago to take on the deviant sects that had emerged among Muslims at that time. How far has Samastha succeeded?
There is a fundamental principle guiding it. Some new sects demanded that practices that had been followed in mosques should be changed. That resulted in the formation of two groups. Aikya Sangam was formed to demand that the azan call, khutba (sermon) and similar practices should be changed. That was the reason for the division, which caused issues in mahals (local Islamic councils). Removing this division means removing the division among the people. Hence, this is not just a religious issue.
Do you believe Samastha has completely achieved this?
We can’t say complete success, but it is a big success. There are madrassas and educational institutions with an ideological basis because of Samastha. This could not have been achieved by individuals alone. There should be a base.
This is why experts formulated a Constitution for India soon after Independence. When we travel, we can see that foreign countries — be it Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Oman or Egypt — laud the Indian Constitution. There are numerous religions in India, and we experience no hurdle in practising our faith. Microphone permission is not denied to any organisation under any rule. We need a building permit from the panchayat for the setting up of madrassas, but they do not inquire about what is taught there. There is complete freedom for all religions. It is Samastha that developed such an awareness. Deviant sects failed to take root here because of Samastha’s presence.
The Mujahid movement in Kerala claims that they brought about a renaissance and introduced women’s education here…
They can have an existence only by making such claims. They assume they can win people’s support by staking a claim to things Sunnis did. Else, people will reject them. They did not bring about anything other than division to the community.
There are organisations such as Samastha Kerala Sunni Yuvajana Sangam (SYS) and Sunni Students Federation (SSF). So, what is the relevance of a new organisation called Kerala Muslim Jama’at? Is it a signal that you would enter politics as and when necessary?
No. Samastha is for religious scholars. The SSF is for students, and SYS for the youth. There is no space in these two for those who have crossed their youth. So there was a need for a new platform. The older generation can work with the youth in the Muslim Jama’at.
When the Samastha had split in 1989, you said that religious scholars should not follow the dictates of politicians. Do you think your stand at that time has been vindicated by later developments?
A majority of people have realised this. What we know is that the opposition party will oppose anything brought in by the ruling party, without considering whether it is good or bad — and vice versa. There is no examination of whether an issue is right or wrong. Everyone has the right to introduce laws, but nobody has the right to bring anything new into Islam. Islamic laws have been recorded by Muslim scholars. We will not allow anyone to act against them.
There were issues in Sunni mahals after the split in Samastha. Do you think that the days of problems are over?
Everyone has realised that we cannot live with divisions for a long time. The decision to solve the issues was taken earlier. There is nothing new in it.
The main slogan of your ‘Kerala Yatra’ revolves around humanity, but of late we hear statements countering that. Especially from people like [SNDP Yogam general secretary] Vellappally Natesan and some CPM leaders…
We wonder why Vellappally is making such statements. We never mentioned him, his organisation or community. We fail to understand why he has been making such unwarranted remarks. We are sure that the Ezhava community will not be swayed by them.
There is a common perception that your faction of Samastha has been closer to the CPM ever since the split. Do you think recent remarks by some CPM leaders have distanced the community from the party?
We are not close to the CPM, but the LDF. There are other constituents in the LDF. We are close to the LDF mainly because a coalition partner in the UDF was against us. We, however, have made it clear to the chief minister himself that we will be forced to oppose if they say anything against the religion.
The CPM mouthpiece, ‘Deshabhimani’, published an article against us. We responded with a rejoinder in the ‘Siraj’ daily. Samastha exists to speak about things associated with the religion, and we make people aware if anyone speaks against the religion. And people will be convinced. An example is the one which you mentioned earlier — those who opposed the ‘Kerala Yatra’ earlier are now associating with us.
Is there any change in Samastha’s approach to the IUML?
That is what I said. There was no distance between the IUML or the communists. We will cooperate with anyone who comes close to us.
Samastha president Jiffiri Thangal once said that some compromises will be needed for the Sunni unity…
It is natural that there will be compromises. For example, the number of secretaries was increased when the splinter groups in the Congress united — 100 secretaries, 200 secretaries… However, Thangal may not have implied any compromises on the religious ideology.
So, will there be an 80-member mushawara (governing council) when the two Sunni factions unite?
(Laughs) Such things will be decided later. Nothing can be said now. Maybe Thangal had this in mind, we don’t know.
Is there any link between the IUML’s closeness to you now and the move for Sunni unity?
Yes, very much. We don’t say the IUML is closer or keeping a distance from us. Intelligent people in the IUML have understood things. They have realised that moving unitedly will be good for the country, so some of them may be coming closer.
You stressed that the ‘Kerala Yatra’ theme was ‘With Humanity’. But at the same time, there is an insistence that Sunnis should not greet Wahhabis with ‘salaam’. Is this not contradictory?
Haven’t you heard of political parties suspending certain active workers? Suspension means keeping them at a distance for the time being with the intention of bringing them back. People with non-Sunni ideas are kept under suspension. This is something that you know from your experience. Even former ministers are suspended from political parties. Doesn’t it mean keeping a distance from them? Many people have come back to the Sunni fold, like people returning to political parties.
But isn’t saying that one should not even greet them with ‘salaam’ inappropriate? It is usually said that one may oppose an ideology, not the individual…
Yes. Not the individual. A political party suspends a person because of what he did against the party. There are practices like not greeting with ‘salaam’. When people are kept at a distance, intelligent ones will rethink that they should not stand isolated and, instead, be a part of the community. They will discard wrong ideology. Thousands of people have returned to our fold.
You are the Grand Mufti of India. The country has been governed by the BJP for over a decade. Has there been any change in Muslim life in these years?
Often, many people express fears over the safety of Muslims under BJP rule. As Grand Mufti, I have convened many meetings in Delhi, and muftis from across India attended them. We discussed the issues faced by Muslims and subsequently communicated them to the prime minister directly. We have met the prime minister more than once.
During the time of the citizenship issue, about 50 muftis from various parts of the country met the prime minister. He didn’t say anything against our demand at that time. The contention was over giving citizenship to Muslims coming in from outside India. The prime minister told us that he would deliberate on the denial of citizenship to such Muslims.
We will convey our concerns to anyone who is in power, be it the BJP or any other party. We have organisational structure and power.
Sunni scholars have often expressed concerns over the participation of women in political celebrations and agitations. Your own remarks on the topic have stirred controversies many times. What is the Islamic view on the issue?
The Islamic view is that women should not enter such areas. Victory celebrations after elections in some places breached boundaries. We spoke to some leaders on the issue and are still having discussions. This is the duty of religious scholars. Women should not be let loose, as it will spell doom for society. We said this in the past, reiterate it now, and will continue to say it in the future too. Otherwise, there will be problems in the country.
You have spoken harshly against Jama’at-e-Islami in the past. Has its association with the UDF given the organisation acceptance within the community?
I don’t think so. There is no possibility of them getting acceptance in the community. In the past, they spoke against casting votes, and now they are contesting elections. People won’t accept this change.
The CPM has been targeting the Jama’at-e-Islami, dragging its name into every other issue. How do you view this?
We don’t blame the Jama’at for everything...
Not you, but the CPM. Do you see a double standard in the approach of political parties that brand the Jama’at as extremists when the organisation votes against them and hail them as moderates when they support them?
The slogan of our Yatra is ‘With Human Beings’. Our activities should not be based on whether a person is Jama’at, Mujahid or any other. We want people to exist as genuine human beings. We don’t accuse anyone of causing every other issue, or absolve anyone of everything.
Many religions in the world have undergone changes over time. There is criticism that Islam hasn’t changed with the times. Is there any need to bring any change in Islam?
Islam doesn’t need to change with the times. The religion is complete and doesn’t require changes. Islam has evolved laws that are applicable for all times. People go the Mujahid or Jama’at way when they move away from it.
TNIE team: Kiran Prakash, M P Prashanth, Rajesh Ravi, Abdul Nazer M A, Harikrishna B T P Sooraj (Photos) Pranav V P (video)